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Old June 8th, 2008   Raymond Virata is offline   #1
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Default Matt Fraction lets down Filipino fans

Due to poor research, Matt Fraction lets down Filipino comic fans who were looking forward to reading Invincible Iron Man 2 which featured the Triumph Division, a superhero group based in the Philippines. Filipino fans agree he could asked his Filipino friends about cultural nuances, just to get it right, even if the team was shown only in a few pages. It's the internet age, people can get pretty vocal and spread the word instantly.

Matt posted a reply, but the Filipino fans felt it was a cop-out. St. George?!! He's not that well-known in the Philippines. St. Michael and St. John are the more popular ones.

"SPOILERS, for people that haven't read the issue,and might want to avoid a small spoiler for IIM #4:

Respectfully, I disagree. It wasn't poorly researched; I promise-- but it was written for a predominantly American comics audience, which resulted in me making some choices for ease-of-reading rather than absolute cultural accuracy. I made that call because I felt if I had to explain and contextualize things for every reader, it would've slowed the story to a halt. Were I writing a Filipino team for a Filipino audience it would have been different.

I know Mongoose aren't indiginous to the Philippines, but they ARE there, and had i time and space to talk about the character, I would've and i think it would've made sense (it's a reference to his kung fu fighting style, but how do you casually bring that up at a ceremony like that?). St. George I disagree with-- as a judeo-christian and catholic icon, I think that's an appropropriate name, especially for the religious makeup of the country.

And as I said elsewhere upthread, I'm introducing the team twice-- read the whole story before you condemn me for creating a team just to kill them off.

I know there's been issue with the use of the faux-Buddhist/Krishna-ish monks in the scene, but as the Philippines is mostly Roman-Catholic, I wanted to pick a visual signifier for a religion and a religous group and its practitioners that, in both countries (the US and the Philippines), indicated a signifigantly small minority. To dress the bombers in a way that immediately suggested a devout religious group, and a somewhat.... not necessarily mysterious, but an exotic one. they were SUPPOSED to a startling and rare group of people, which is exactly what they were.

(this issue saw the first real editorial content note I've ever received: in the inital drafts of the script, the monks were children. the bombers were supposed to be nearly a-religious...)

I talked to a couple Pinoy friends, both here and in the Philippines (at one point even toyed with doing the whole scene in Tagalog) about the characters and the scene and felt comfortable with the way it ran. The mongoose was the one issue that came up and it was one that I chose to make (ultimately, it's a name, and just struck me as-- well, a name. Is "Green Lantern" too American a name? Etc. etc.). The rest I'd argue with similar to how I have here on the basis factual or artistic decisions."
 
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Old June 8th, 2008   Director of Everything is offline   #2
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oh lord. just read it and enjoy. or don't and don't.
the end.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Brian LaBelle is offline   #3
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Due to poor research, Matt Fraction lets down Filipino comic fans who were looking forward to reading Invincible Iron Man 2 which featured the Triumph Division, a superhero group based in the Philippines. Filipino fans agree he could asked his Filipino friends about cultural nuances, just to get it right, even if the team was shown only in a few pages. It's the internet age, people can get pretty vocal and spread the word instantly. Matt posted a reply, but the Filipino fans felt it was a cop-out. St. George?!! He's not that well-known in the Philippines. St. Michael and St. John are the more popular ones.
ddf
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And yet, my biggest issue with Alpha Flight was that most of the characters are so painfully stereotypical at times it was hard to read through. It sounds like there was a pretty fair representation there which is more than I can say for us drunk, lumberjack-lookin' hairy midgets in a blizzard.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   michealdark is offline   #4
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So wait, he blew up a team he just created, so he can recreate them in the next part of the story? Why?!



Also, the fact that he was writing it for a predominantly American audience does seem like a cop-out to me. As an American literature fan in general, let me tell you a little something. I like learning about other cultures. And if there's a chance that a well-written and well researched work of fiction might be able to help in that department, please, enlighten me. I appreciate it more than trying to dumb things down in the belief that my Occidental mind is too ****ing small to understand it!
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Old June 9th, 2008   Frankenstein is offline   #5
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Are you serious with this rubbish!? Who gives a rats arse?

Fraction Rocks!!

'Nuff said.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Dan Loayza is offline   #6
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Who gives a rats arse?
ddf
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At a guess, Filipino fans?

Who's Matt Fraction? Presumably he writes Iron Man, which is not a book I care about, but I've never heard of him otherwise.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   sylpemberton is offline   #7
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And yet, my biggest issue with Alpha Flight was that most of the characters are so painfully stereotypical at times it was hard to read through. It sounds like there was a pretty fair representation there which is more than I can say for us drunk, lumberjack-lookin' hairy midgets in a blizzard.
ddf
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Hmmm. Drunk lumberjack looking hairy midget?! Are you talking about my mom again Brian?!
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Jay West is offline   #8
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What? You do realize it is make believe characters in a fantasy world, right? Who is to say a Muslim team didn't decide to make the Philippines their home in the Marvel U. Would that have been a problem? Can the Rhino rob a back in the Philippines since I doubt there are a lot of Rhinos running around in the wild. Let's see what if Thor wanted to move his operations to the Philippines due to the lack of worship of Norse gods is he not welcome?

Sorry but it sounds like you are saying that only characters that have strong roots in the Philippines can operate in the Philippines and that just doesn't make any sense.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   J. Torres is offline   #9
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Matt should have simply said, "I did the research, but these were my creative choices, sorry if you didn't like them."

I'm a Filipino writer, so obviously my opinion trumps all of you
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Vinny Piccolo is offline   #10
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Matt should have simply said, "I did the research, but these were my creative choices, sorry if you didn't like them."

I'm a Filipino writer, so obviously my opinion trumps all of you
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Well played, Sir!
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Amentep is offline   #11
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I was going to post to the thread, but my opinion was trumped by J. Torres before I even posted.





Seriously my problem isn't so much with the choices made as the reasoning, which to me seems to (at its worst) boil down to "American comic readers are too stupid to understand but the simplist, most widely understood concepts"

I know that's not what Matt's trying to say, but I think its a slippery slope to try and walk. For that matter, if he blew them all up (as is implied) why would he have to "explain and contextualize things" for the reader? Why would it matter if they didn't have an immediate context? Or am I missing something?
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   J. Torres is offline   #12
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Oh, did I mention that I grew up in Canada but hate skiing... because of those slippery slopes
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Amentep is offline   #13
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I broke my ankle last year. Not on a slippery slope, but I've grown to fear them anyhow.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   slaviksvensk is offline   #14
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so? BPRD garden of soul wasn't an accurate representation of indonesia either. but at least it was set there, which is saying something.

these guys are COMIC BOOK WRITERS. i think it's already a big plus that they are writing about places not named "United States of America." can't really fault fraction for picking the wrong saint.
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   Chris Hansbrough is offline   #15
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ooooh ooooh....I hope at a comic-con panel this year that Mat get's hos own Crazy Matt Fraction hates Asian guys like BKV got....I love those guys.....every writer should have their own ______ HATES _____ fan
 
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Old June 9th, 2008   jafabian is offline   #16
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I'm of Phillipines descent and I have to admit, WE GOT PUNK'D BY MATT FRACTION!!!!!


However, it IS funny. Two pages and BLAMMO!!! It's something I might expect in The Boys!

 
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