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Old August 10th, 2006   Matches is offline   #113
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I guess it's the "shock value quotient" in this sort of thing. Much like the rape of Sue Dibny, the death of Wally and Linda's twins was done in a manner that showed intent to cause grief and harm and hit people below the belt, in some ways. I don't think it's so much that it was violent as it was extremely impactful and made you feel deeply for the characters involved.
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Atom
Yeah, but.. isn't that a GOOD thing? Good fiction makes you laugh with the characters when they're at their highest, and cry with them at their lowest. The ending of Rogue War has much more meaning after reading Flash #200 and also the "Ignition" arc, because you feel the pain Wally & Linda go through. Seeing them get a second chance means more to the reader after watching chance #1 go up in smoke.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #114
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I'm not saying Geoff writes every issue as a bloodbath, Matches. Heck, I'm sure the percentage of stories where something uber-violent happens if less than a percent. But, what I am saying is that if you look at those violent issues, it does seem that there's an escalation in what the readers are seeing.

And it's not just Geoff, it's comics as a whole. Look at Sue Dibny's death scene. Eve when Jason Todd got beaten to death by the Joker, you saw the scene without seeing Jason getting beaten. Beetle getting a bullet in the head? Not surprising.

And it's not just DC. Look at Marvel where we've seen a LOT of gruesome stuff going on.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #115
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IMHO, we're still getting a pretty healthy dose of "violence topping" in "52" right now. Black Adam's tearing Terra Man in half and splattering his blood and gore over the assembled onlookers was about as bloody and violent as it comes.
ddf
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Again, that's still Black Adam. It's just being consistent with the character. It's not like we're going to walk over to Marvel and find the Punisher telling criminals that he's just giving them a warning today.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #116
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IMHO, we're still getting a pretty healthy dose of "violence topping" in "52" right now. Black Adam's tearing Terra Man in half and splattering his blood and gore over the assembled onlookers was about as bloody and violent as it comes.
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Um......YUCK! In HALF????
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #117
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I'm not saying Geoff writes every issue as a bloodbath, Matches. Heck, I'm sure the percentage of stories where something uber-violent happens if less than a percent. But, what I am saying is that if you look at those violent issues, it does seem that there's an escalation in what the readers are seeing.

And it's not just Geoff, it's comics as a whole. Look at Sue Dibny's death scene. Eve when Jason Todd got beaten to death by the Joker, you saw the scene without seeing Jason getting beaten. Beetle getting a bullet in the head? Not surprising.

And it's not just DC. Look at Marvel where we've seen a LOT of gruesome stuff going on.
ddf
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See now you're going on a whole OTHER tangent. Should we go there, or stick to what Maven was talking about in regards to Geoff's future work specifically being on the same level as Superboy Prime's violence?
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #118
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Again, that's still Black Adam. It's just being consistent with the character. It's not like we're going to walk over to Marvel and find the Punisher telling criminals that he's just giving them a warning today.
ddf
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a) Let's not make this Marvel vs. DC. Like I said, Marvel is doing it too.

b) It's not Black Adam. It's someone writing his words and actions.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   Matches is offline   #119
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I'm not saying Geoff writes every issue as a bloodbath, Matches. Heck, I'm sure the percentage of stories where something uber-violent happens if less than a percent. But, what I am saying is that if you look at those violent issues, it does seem that there's an escalation in what the readers are seeing.

And it's not just Geoff, it's comics as a whole. Look at Sue Dibny's death scene. Eve when Jason Todd got beaten to death by the Joker, you saw the scene without seeing Jason getting beaten. Beetle getting a bullet in the head? Not surprising.

And it's not just DC. Look at Marvel where we've seen a LOT of gruesome stuff going on.
ddf
TJLamb0518
Agreed to an extent, but I don't think it's exclusive to comics by any means. Video games, movies, TV shows - all of them feel more violent than they did 20 years ago. In a similar vein, the sexual situations leave a lot less to the imagination. In 1980, we'dve seen Cassie & Conner kiss, and then fade into shadow. An older reader would infer what happened; a younger reader probably wouldn't. Now we see Cassie pop off her shirt (in shadow) - VERY clear what comes next.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #120
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b) It's not Black Adam. It's someone writing his words and actions.
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What do you mean? Don't tell me you believe this propaganda that these people are just works of fiction....
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #121
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See now you're going on a whole OTHER tangent. Should we go there, or stick to what Maven was talking about in regards to Geoff's future work specifically being on the same level as Superboy Prime's violence?
ddf
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Maven is not totally wrong, IMO. However, what's funny is that you're posting this right after bringing the Punisher into the discussion.

I've seen this dance too many times, John. I'm out.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   Chris Hansbrough is offline   #122
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IMHO, we're still getting a pretty healthy dose of "violence topping" in "52" right now. Black Adam's tearing Terra Man in half and splattering his blood and gore over the assembled onlookers was about as bloody and violent as it comes.
ddf
Atom
but that's the thing. that's black adam. not to mentuion what I said before. when people die in comics. it needs to be pretty violent. the bad guys are sadistic and not to mention they have what are called superpowers. if I get punched with superstrength, blasted with eyebeams, frozen and shattered, burned with flame something or othery magic, or shot with a massive supercanon it sure as hell ain't gonna be pretty.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #123
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Now we see Cassie pop off her shirt (in shadow) - VERY clear what comes next.
ddf
Matches

Um....Indian rubs?
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #124
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a) Let's not make this Marvel vs. DC. Like I said, Marvel is doing it too.

b) It's not Black Adam. It's someone writing his words and actions.
ddf
TJLamb0518
I'm not making it a "vs" thing at all. I'm simply showing that the character is being written consistently, just as the Punisher is. Same answer for b. He's being written consistently with his past actions since taking over Kahndaq. We shouldn't be surprised if he does it again...it's who he is.

However, if you were to actually read 52, you would see that Isis is providing a calming influence on Black Adam, and actually prevented him from killing anyone in the last issue. So what DC is doing is, whenever something violent happens, they show that it's not a positive thing, and that there ARE consequences, and they then attempt to redeem the characters.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   Chris Hansbrough is offline   #125
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Um....Indian rubs?
ddf
TJLamb0518
he cooks bacon on her stomach. yes it's true. superboy is tom cruise and is part of the bacon league. it's no coincidence he died right around the height of all the insane tom cruise hoopla.......
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   Matches is offline   #126
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stepping aside

 
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However, if you were to actually read 52, you would see that Isis is providing a calming influence on Black Adam, and actually prevented him from killing anyone in the last issue. So what DC is doing is, whenever something violent happens, they show that it's not a positive thing, and that there ARE consequences, and they then attempt to redeem the characters.
ddf
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I haven't been reading 52, but at HeroesCon Greg Rucka promised that "before 52 is over, you will cry for Black Adam". If nothing else, there's a plan in place.
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #127
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he cooks bacon on her stomach. yes it's true. superboy is tom cruise and is part of the bacon league. it's no coincidence he died right around the height of all the insane tom cruise hoopla.......
ddf
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It was Charlie Sheen cooking eggs and bacon on a womens stomach. Tom isnt that cool
 
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Old August 10th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #128
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Maven is not totally wrong, IMO. However, what's funny is that you're posting this right after bringing the Punisher into the discussion.

I've seen this dance too many times, John. I'm out.
ddf
TJLamb0518
Hey, you can make a big show and leave if you want to, but it doesn't make you right.

I was using the Punisher simply as a way to show that characters like Black Adam are written in a consistent manner, and it's been going on for a long time. I only compared Black Adam to the Punisher to make that point. I wasn't the one saying "hey let's talk about this other violent story here, hey let's talk about all the violence in comics" etc... I was staying focused on Geoff's writing, and simply comparing one of the characters he writes with another one by another company in order to show that it's not something new.
 
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