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Old August 8th, 2006   J-Liv is offline   #33
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Definitely preferred the way it ended up. In the original version, the deaths had no impact on Prime other than making him angry, which he already was.

The biggest thing that stuck out at me in the first draft was that Prime's actions actually ran contrary to his motivations: he was coming back to show these heroes what it REALLY meant to be a hero. I would never bought for a moment that he would have intentionally killed ANYONE and then went forward to brutally kill more...crazy as he was, at THAT POINT, he was still just trying to be the good guy, and intentional killing only lines up with that if you first saw print in the 90's.

The way he ended up reacting made much more sense, and actually made his both his own victim and his own worst enemy. He didn't INTENTIONALLY kill Pantha....he lost control in the midst of a temper tantrum, which younger teens have been known to do when they feel cornered. He lashed out without thinking about the consequences, and it makes perfect sense that he would be mortified and confused upon seeing the results of his action.

The first draft almost reads more like Cyborg Superman than Superboy Prime.

-J
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Deadpool is offline   #34
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I'm reading the final draft of that scene and I noticed something in the script around the "Page Nineteen Continued - Phil" page (second page in this mini-draft script). After Geoff goes to great detail describing Pantha's demise, in Panel Six she's listed in the group that's led by Risk left tackling Superboy-Prime. Now in the comic it is corrected, but I gotta tell ya...imagine if the scene went on as EXACTLY scripted, where Pantha gets her head punched off her body and she STILL goes after SBP! That would be very interesting.

Granted, it's a very small nitpick and it was caught, but it does show how easily a comic could be derailed by a little mistake. There are times where these things haven't been caught and the Internet goes ape over some of them. It's a credit to these writers, artists, and editors who go through this long process of creating a comic and still catching this stuff before it goes to print (in this case, probably Phil).
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   imarriedsatanII is offline   #35
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Glad Argent and Risk didn't die. They were the only redeeming part of the last Teen Titans series featuring lil' Atom. Well, besides using Lilith. But it's counteracted by changing her to Omen!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   superfriend is offline   #36
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I think it's a trip that some people love Pantha.
like, that is their favorite character. awesome.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   darthlucifuge is offline   #37
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I think it's a trip that some people love Pantha.
like, that is their favorite character. awesome.
ddf
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I cant see what her appeal is
I mean she wasnt a very head strong chatacter.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   JLG is offline   #38
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Yep, so tragic, it inspires bad puns. Great job Geoff!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   darthlucifuge is offline   #39
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Yep, so tragic, it inspires bad puns. Great job Geoff!
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Cmon it was only a joke
You dont need to lose your head over it.

I swear that wasnt intentional
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   rex tyler is offline   #40
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I can see where this thread is headed.......
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Arcademan/PixieP is offline   #41
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A mind is a terrible thing to waste...especially over this.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   rex tyler is offline   #42
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I appreciate you sticking your neck out for me.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   JLG is offline   #43
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Jeez, you guys can't come up with Superboy or Lilith puns when those fans start complaining?
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Mattropolis616 is offline   #44
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Well, not to get back on topic or anything, but I remember reading issue four in the car here in Florida. I was here interviewing and wanted to find out where the comic book stores in town were. I knew that I already had a copy of IC on its way to me back in Cincinnati (home at the time), but I wanted to pick up something at the new store and the cover to IC was beckoning me...

So, I picked it up and bought it...

And my reaction was exactly what Geoff said in the Wizard article. It was so much more about what Superboy did than about who died. If it had been Argent or Terra I would have been more upset. As it was, I felt almost... sorry for Superboy at that very moment. You really get the sense that he didn't mean for this to happen and that this is one of those "can never turn back" moments that define our lives.

Superboy-Prime could NEVER be the innocent again.

And his destiny was changed in that single moment. Yes, Pantha Baby Wildebeest and Bushido were killed; but so was Superboy's innocence. And THAT is compelling writing to me.

I haven't always been Geoff's biggest supporter and I'm still not but this scene was a hit out of the ballpark. I'm glad it was revised.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   SaneHal is offline   #45
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I have to say that IC #4 is one of my all time favorite issues in 20 plus years of reading comics. probably #2 or #3. I am not sure that I even want to read the pre rewritten script.
 
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Old August 9th, 2006   Stephen Henel is offline   #46
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I think that having so many deaths isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I do think they were somewhat glorified more than they needed to be. I don't remember people posting feverishly that "oh, em, gee, Pantha died!" or "Superboy's crying, colon, left parenthesis!" so much as "HE PUNCHED HER FREAKING HEAD OFF, ROFFLES!!" Perhaps the maiming and mutilation could have been more low-key, and scenes of such wanton violence could have been abridged rather than eliminated to make room for scenes of more honest emotion such as Superboy Prime's regret, or Wally West's disappearance from the DCU, which I frankly feel got the short end of the stick in this issue.

Still, all said and done, it was a great issue that really added some gravity to the Crisis and made Superboy Prime and Bart Allen truly shine. I look forward to seeing the alternate cuts.
 
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Old August 9th, 2006   Matches is offline   #47
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I think that having so many deaths isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I do think they were somewhat glorified more than they needed to be. I don't remember people posting feverishly that "oh, em, gee, Pantha died!" or "Superboy's crying, colon, left parenthesis!" so much as "HE PUNCHED HER FREAKING HEAD OFF, ROFFLES!!" Perhaps the maiming and mutilation could have been more low-key, and scenes of such wanton violence could have been abridged rather than eliminated to make room for scenes of more honest emotion such as Superboy Prime's regret, or Wally West's disappearance from the DCU, which I frankly feel got the short end of the stick in this issue.
ddf
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I've always been a big believer in implied violence. Sometimes what you don't see is scarier and more horrifying than what you do see. Hitchcock used that idea quite well over the years. Unfortunately in this case I'm not sure how you show that Pantha's head got punched off without actually showing the head. IMO Max shooting Ted Kord was unnecessarily graphic - a panel of Max pulling the trigger would've been enough. But the Pantha thing - I dunno, maybe it could've been done in silhouette or something, but I'm not sure that's much different really.
 
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Old August 9th, 2006   wickedwrister31 is offline   #48
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I've always been a big believer in implied violence. Sometimes what you don't see is scarier and more horrifying than what you do see. Hitchcock used that idea quite well over the years. Unfortunately in this case I'm not sure how you show that Pantha's head got punched off without actually showing the head. IMO Max shooting Ted Kord was unnecessarily graphic - a panel of Max pulling the trigger would've been enough. But the Pantha thing - I dunno, maybe it could've been done in silhouette or something, but I'm not sure that's much different really.
ddf
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Normally, I'm a fan of implied violence too, but I seem to mostly enjoy it in film more then in comics. In the case of Ted Kord's death, I think they wanted you to see exactly what happened, to send the message that his death was serious and would not be undone a few months down the road with a "you never saw what really happened, you never saw the body" type of excuse.
 
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