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Old August 8th, 2006   Eric Moreno is offline   #17
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It was very cool to see how this scene evolved ... to me, it was much more horrifying the way it finally ended up.

Seeing the thought that went into it proves why Geoff is a master at his craft.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Matt Olsen is offline   #18
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The first draft was a little over-the-top in violence, but I liked the last-minute save of Robin that was in there.

As it turned out though, it was still easily my favorite scene from IC. The panel of SBP looking down through his tears at his bloodied hands while stammering that he didn't mean to do it has stuck with me as one of the strongest emotional scenes I've ever seen.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   datalore is offline   #19
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Thanks for sharing that with us.

I am a little disturbed that it really didn't matter who died.

Sounds a little like..."we just had to kill someone, anyone".

I understand the scene better now, but am a little tired of the latest trend in comics...which is "kill, kill, kill - oh, and if we can have an innocent do it, all the better".

True, the improvement made the scene that much more disturbing...
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Erik Sternberger is offline   #20
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Very interesting.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   hero_incredible is offline   #21
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I'm glad the scene was changed. Turned into my second favourite scene from IC.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   clarkent1982 is offline   #22
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I really enjoyed writing this one. Of course the scene is controversial - people die in horrible ways. But it's certainly not a snuff film. It's a tragic moment.

Geoff
ddf
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Are you kidding me?

I loved that scene!!!!

For that matter I loved all the deaths in IC!

Kill away!!!

PS-Matt, there is nothing wrong with over the top violence
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   bookwriter is offline   #23
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Thanks for the link. I really enjoyed it!!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Suzanne is offline   #24
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I wouldn't call it a "snuff film" either because SBP would've had to have done the deed with at least one of his victims before killing them I don't shock or offend easily, but that would've been too much for me!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Cammy is offline   #25
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I loved reading that column, it's always interesting to see how Geoff handles characters, scripts and such. It always shows in his stories how much effort he puts into them, he did an amazing job with Infinite Crisis #4 and it sure shows!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Blacula is offline   #26
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****! We came SOOOOooooo close to finally getting rid of Argent and Risk, two of my least favourite Titans ever.

As soon as I read that Geoff had taken the script to Eddie Berganza I knew exactly how she escaped the chopping block. As if he hasn't forced his little pet on us enough with her whole hugely forced and inappropriate membership on Devin Grayson's team of Titans.

I wonder what his 'plans' for her are? <shudder>

As much as I disliked Infinite Crisis (for many reasons including the writing and art) I do think that this sequence was very well done. I really felt the emotional intensity and crazy chaos of this scene and completely got what Superboy Prime was going through. And the deaths were quite gut-wrenching. Geoff did a good job here.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   JLG is offline   #27
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Going through the characters further, Pantha was chosen because she hadn’t been active in a long time and she would affect Red Star, who was very close with her, when we told his story. And it worked, for the most part. People said, “Did you see what Superboy-Prime did?” instead of “Pantha died!”
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Old August 8th, 2006   darthlucifuge is offline   #28
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Jesus. Way to stock that Refrigerator Geoff!
ddf
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pantha really needs to find a way to get a-head in life

Geoff you rule-nuff said.
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   DarkNight1939 is offline   #29
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i thought that was amazing!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Brian LaBelle is offline   #30
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Are you kidding me?

I loved that scene!!!!
ddf
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I wouldn't have minded seeing that one in print either actually!
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   Old School is offline   #31
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that was a cool scene.. but i still think argent should have bought the farm instead of pantha
 
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Old August 8th, 2006   JLG is offline   #32
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It's very close to being a snuff film, giving the loving attention paid to the gore. It's "tragic" in the same way a bad slasher movie is "tragic" - in the back of your head you may think "Aww, that's too bad" but the overwhelming reaction is "OMFG COOL! Lookit the blood and the bouncing ****ing head! AWESOME!" That people are only focusing on the superficial surface of the scene (how cool the basic scene ripping off a Mortal Kombat fatality is, or how ****ing silly it is giving Absorbascon's meme) rather than the intention shows that it fails. The lack of any real scene afterward (or any setup with the Titans before the fight) with the Titans shows the violence is more important than the actual tragedy. It's the same issues that's with something like Chaos or Wolf Creek which purpot to be about "realism" and "evil," yet end up glorifying the scene and gearing it towards visual pleasure than a real punch to the gut (just look at the comments in this thread so far). It's cheap, it's not good writing.

Selecting an established character to die because they "haven't been used in a while" or "it'll make the male hero feel bad," isn't good writing - as pointed out here and by Geoff himself, the character dying isn't important, their death doesn't serve anything for their character. This isn't a factor for some anonymous Star Trek Red Shirt created in that episode with no history, but not for an existing character, especially one with an unresolved storyline about her identity. And especially succumbing to the WiR cliche, when Johns admits killing the character for an effect on the male characters (SBP and Red Star) while reducing her to an object (Johns wanting you to focus on her detached head rather than her as a character). Her "death:" is important, not her. And even then it's never mentioned beyond a throwaway reference in the Titans tie in about how they'd be forgotten. So much for importance.

And I know what the preprocessed response is going to be: It doesn't matter since she's not a popular character. And this is a nobody fanboy complaining on an Internet message board. But if Nightwing was dispatched in that manner, people would be whining and complaining all over the place (never mind how people complained about the awful state of his character). I guess that's why Geoff ultimately had three unused Titans characters killed off. And that's why it's worth nothing more than an empty, ephemeral shock - it's obvious who's being protected in that scene, and who's canon fodder, even for a scene that's supposed to be "chaotic" with a power like SBP running amok. And Johns even had it in the Titans tie-ins: they're Titans "no one is going to miss." It's an immense cop-out, wanting a major shock, but not having the fortitude to kill off a more "major" character.
 
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