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Old August 11th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #177
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Far from an afterthought....it was tactical. The intent of the scene was to clear the field so George Perez could relaunch the character. To me thats pretty major.

Afterthought implies that they didn't have plans for Diana at all so they just opted to kill her.
ddf
Jeffrey Neary


No, afterthought means for a character as big as Wonder Woman in a series that gave BIG death scenes to the Flash and Supergirl, friggin' Dove was given a btter on panel death than Wonder Woman, who was just removed from existence. Heck, AQUAGIRL got better.

Of course it was clearing the field for the new series. She just could've gotten a better scene.
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Cousin Cory Springhorn is offline   #178
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Oh - Ragnell, you mentioned Wonder Woman? She's the ONE possible example of a prominent female character whose male support gets killed off just to cause her grief and angst.
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Wonder Woman's little sister Donna may disagree that Wonder Woman is the only such example. Terry Long would disagree too... except that he can't, because he's DEAD!

Also, let's not forget Larry Lance- remember that the revelation that Black Canary I died shortly after Larry was a later retcon... originally Larry's death was just to cause grief and angst for Dinah, causing her to move to Earth-1 (a normal response to great personal loss- move to another universe! Who amongst us has not done this?)

Starfire has also had two husbands killed off, although in neither case was it so much to cause grief and angst as it was the equivalent of hitting a reset button.

Katana's husband was killed to cause her grief and angst as well, but this may not count, since it was already part of her backstory as of her first appearance... there are probably other examples like this we could come up with.
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Jeffrey Neary is offline   #179
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No, afterthought means for a character as big as Wonder Woman in a series that gave BIG death scenes to the Flash and Supergirl, friggin' Dove was given a btter on panel death than Wonder Woman, who was just removed from existence. Heck, AQUAGIRL got better.

Of course it was clearing the field for the new series. She just could've gotten a better scene.
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I don't know...I thought that page was one of the more tragic scenes from the series.

The alternative would have been killing her earlier..and then the complaints would have been..."What..Diana isn't strong enough to survive to the end of COIE? DC doesn't respect her."
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #180
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She could've died in that final battle as opposed to shot in the back like a dog.
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Jeffrey Neary is offline   #181
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How many dogs are shot in the back?

Do we really need to exaggerate?
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #182
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There ARE strong parallels between the "Green Lantern Corps" as originally designed, and the Lensman series - especially the notion of specifically chosen representatives equipped with all-powerful devices. On the other hand, the original creators said they didn't specifically pattern the GL Corps after the Lensmen.

By the time the Corps added members named "Arisia" and "Eddore", though, it was pretty obvious that DC had picked up on the parallels and was nodding in their general direction.

Late in the series, four select Lensmen get upgrades to "Second Stage" or "Level 2", making them super-special even among their own kind. But no other characters had to be sacrificed for this to happen.

I don't think it's too big a reach to say Kyle was being made a "Second Stage Green Lantern" - but boy howdy was it infuriatingly done!
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Sk8maven
I wasn't saying that they WEREN'T based off the Lensmen, I was saying that was no reason to call the concept sexist. Especially as the part of the Lensmen that was sexist, the "Women can't join" bit was never part of Green Lantern. Katma Tui, in GL#30 was actually created under the original creative team of Broome and Kane. Having a sexist source material does not mean that the sexism carries through.

Oh - Ragnell, you mentioned Wonder Woman? She's the ONE possible example of a prominent female character whose male support gets killed off just to cause her grief and angst. Pre-COIE, DC did it to Steve Trevor - twice. (Post-COIE, they made him too old to be any possible romantic interest to her - and fans have never accepted it.) Recently, they did it to her again - with Trevor Barnes (whom fans never accepted in the first place).

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ddf
Thanks.

(And I'm one of the fans who've never accepted the older Steve Trevor. That they felt a need to age her mortal love interest and replace him with a crush on Superman actually strikes me as very sexist. If Lois Lane is good enough for Superman, why isn't Steve Trevor suitable for Wonder Woman?)
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #183
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Wonder Woman's little sister Donna may disagree that Wonder Woman is the only such example. Terry Long would disagree too... except that he can't, because he's DEAD!

Also, let's not forget Larry Lance- remember that the revelation that Black Canary I died shortly after Larry was a later retcon... originally Larry's death was just to cause grief and angst for Dinah, causing her to move to Earth-1 (a normal response to great personal loss- move to another universe! Who amongst us has not done this?)

Starfire has also had two husbands killed off, although in neither case was it so much to cause grief and angst as it was the equivalent of hitting a reset button.

Katana's husband was killed to cause her grief and angst as well, but this may not count, since it was already part of her backstory as of her first appearance... there are probably other examples like this we could come up with.
ddf
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Ooo forgot about poor Larry. Replaced with Ollie Queen.
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #184
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Chris D -- I gave you the benefit of the doubt last thread to the point of private messages explaining why I was offended before calling you out on it there. Here, I very much attempted to explain just why you had offended me, and do it with a little humor. I lose my temper and get overly aggressive sometimes, so that probably worked ot my disadvantage here.

But your insults have gotten to the point I just can't wade through them. I'm not about to call you delusional, as you call me, but you certainly are being malicious, but I'm not sure if you're trying to get me to think that I'm being irrational, or if you're just trying to get everyone else on the thread to think I'm insane. If anyone here is actually interested to see what Chris D is complaining about, feel free to follow this link in addition to my earlier linked answers, but I'm not going to subject myself to this anymore. So as of now, you are the first person ever on my ignore list.

Hope it actually works.
 
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Old August 11th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #185
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No, afterthought means for a character as big as Wonder Woman in a series that gave BIG death scenes to the Flash and Supergirl, friggin' Dove was given a btter on panel death than Wonder Woman, who was just removed from existence. Heck, AQUAGIRL got better.

Of course it was clearing the field for the new series. She just could've gotten a better scene.
ddf
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Actually, I don't remember her death from CoIE, so yeah, it could've been better.
 
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Old August 13th, 2006   holo2 is offline   #186
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Interesting stuff.
 
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