The Comic Bloc Forums

Go Back   The Comic Bloc Forums > General Talk > Comic Announcements, Discussions, News and Rumors

Comic Announcements, Discussions, News and Rumors Thoughts, reviews, interview links and rumors

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 10th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #161
Ragnell's Avatar
Ragnell
Evil Fem-muh-nist

 
joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 861

Default

All we need now is for Grant Morrison to come into the thread and freak out and it will be complete. this is starting to turn into another racism guy from comicon
ddf
Chris Hansbrough
Hey man, did you actually see it? From what I've read you can't tell if he was serious or not and I've been curious.
 
Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006   Chris Hansbrough is offline   #162
Chris Hansbrough's Avatar
Chris Hansbrough
Scion of Mogo

 
joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 7,455

Default

oh he was serious. you could tell he was pissed after he sat down afterwords. he was genuinely pissed off. the guy just did not shut up so grant yelled at him for like a minute at least.
 
EIC - Nerdstock Comics
Webhost - Plastikitty

X-Box Live : Scion of Mogo
PSN : Scion_of_Mogo
Steam : Scion_of_Mogo
Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #163
John Hays's Avatar
John Hays
Lovin life!

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 7,939

Default

oh he was serious. you could tell he was pissed after he sat down afterwords. he was genuinely pissed off. the guy just did not shut up so grant yelled at him for like a minute at least.
ddf
Chris Hansbrough
He then apologized to the guy at the end of the panel.
 
"What we've got here is ... failure to communicate." - Cool Hand Luke

3 time consecutive Comicbloc College Basketball Tournament Champion!
Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006   Chris Hansbrough is offline   #164
Chris Hansbrough's Avatar
Chris Hansbrough
Scion of Mogo

 
joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 7,455

Default

I know but the guy still deserved a good reaming.
 
EIC - Nerdstock Comics
Webhost - Plastikitty

X-Box Live : Scion of Mogo
PSN : Scion_of_Mogo
Steam : Scion_of_Mogo
Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #165
John Hays's Avatar
John Hays
Lovin life!

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 7,939

Default

Regardless, it's important to note that Grant did apologize, because no matter how annoying that guy was, it's up to the pros to set the example of keeping your cool in a situation like that. I respect those that do, or those that realize later and apologize for it.
 
"What we've got here is ... failure to communicate." - Cool Hand Luke

3 time consecutive Comicbloc College Basketball Tournament Champion!
Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #166
Ragnell's Avatar
Ragnell
Evil Fem-muh-nist

 
joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 861

Default

Regardless, it's important to note that Grant did apologize, because no matter how annoying that guy was, it's up to the pros to set the example of keeping your cool in a situation like that. I respect those that do, or those that realize later and apologize for it.
ddf
John Hays
*nod* Everybody loses their temper once in a while.
 
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Geoff Johns is offline   #167
Geoff Johns's Avatar
Geoff Johns
Premier

 
joined: Feb 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,179

Default

Regardless, it's important to note that Grant did apologize, because no matter how annoying that guy was, it's up to the pros to set the example of keeping your cool in a situation like that.
ddf
John Hays
Yeah. Aren't we lucky?

Geoff
 
Remember if you don't read comics you help the enemy!!
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   John Hays is offline   #168
John Hays's Avatar
John Hays
Lovin life!

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 7,939

Default

Yeah. Aren't we lucky?

Geoff
ddf
Geoff Johns
Probably gives ya a taste of how Spoon feels on here!
 
"What we've got here is ... failure to communicate." - Cool Hand Luke

3 time consecutive Comicbloc College Basketball Tournament Champion!
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #169
Ragnell's Avatar
Ragnell
Evil Fem-muh-nist

 
joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 861

Default

Yeah. Aren't we lucky?

Geoff
ddf
Geoff Johns
You know, I always figured you guys just stopped reading the thread when you get quiet for so long after a final word sort of post.
 
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Chris Hansbrough is offline   #170
Chris Hansbrough's Avatar
Chris Hansbrough
Scion of Mogo

 
joined: Jan 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 7,455

Default

geoff is like the flash....he reads everything and absorbs it all then feeds it to the other band members through the might of osmosis......
 
EIC - Nerdstock Comics
Webhost - Plastikitty

X-Box Live : Scion of Mogo
PSN : Scion_of_Mogo
Steam : Scion_of_Mogo
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #171
Ragnell's Avatar
Ragnell
Evil Fem-muh-nist

 
joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 861

Default

geoff is like the flash....he reads everything and absorbs it all then feeds it to the other band members through the might of osmosis......
ddf
Chris Hansbrough
Then I should sound off about feminism more often.
 
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #172
Chris D.'s Avatar
Chris D.
The Mogolicious Horseman

 
joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,892

Default

I got that because you addressed the wrong point. Maven based her accusation on the idea it wass based off the Lensmen novels, which was a weak point you could easily have gone after. Instead, out of nowhere, you began listing male characters and the tragedies that had happened to them. The only point on Maven's post that such a list could target was the Jade one.


They are poor examples. Learn to argue the point.
ddf
Ragnell
Your answers and stance has become a tragic comedy. This is not a debate, this is you being completely delusionsal, lying outright and being intellectually dishonest. It really is a sad sight.

Once again Maven gave an overall view, that included many things. I replied by giving a REAL overall view, showing the other side. You want to avoid it bc it goes against your agenda, which has become transparent. Learn how to not surpress reality.



I'm saying that you are being illogical and defensive because you immediately dismiss the idea that women are treated differently from men in comics, to the point that someone who would agree with you on the initial point is put on the defensive.
ddf
Ragnell
In that GL debate, I provided plenty of real examples and proof. On everything. You couldn't counter so you reduced yourself to just making accusations of me "using sexism to defend sexism" Showing you could not and had nothing further to debate. Which was sad and humorous. Not as humorous as when you go back to your blog, twist the argument to try and rationalize to yourself that you somehow debated well. Cute though.

You mean these results.

I have to take issue with that accusation. I collected the Yeses and Nos, and the ones that required names and short results for brevity. I quoted EVERYONE in the questions that required quotes, and tried to keep it to only those questions. I did add too footnotes because I saw at least two arguments where short answers were called into question by some extremely odd responses.

I avoided the answers that were not directed at the questionnaire, which is how your arguments against Maven did not make the cut.

It is Not My Fault when the people who find it not sexist only offer comments on yes/no questions and skipped the questions that actually ask for comments. I linked all of the original threads so people could see for themselves.
ddf
Ragnell

Funny you actually posted the link, although not very bright if you want to support your flimsy argument. It shows EXACTLY what I stated. You quoted all the negative quotes and not 1 from the other side. And there were, including mine, which answered your questions directly. The only thing more atrocious than your dishonesty and skewing of your little poll is that fact that you are straight out lying about it now, when there's a link with proof against you. This shows how any argument by you has absolutely no merit whatsoever. The extent in which you twist things in your mind is unbelievable.


Here's a tip, stop using a single person as an excuse to attack a very broad viewpoint and argue on the same level the person you are arguing with. All you do is create ghosts of previous arguments and cast them on the current one. This gets you nowhere.
ddf
Ragnell

This one is absolutely hilarious. It's great when someone is dishonest and delusional and then tries to say the other person is. Good stuff right here. This is actually describing what you are doing. It's all typed out for people to see, you can't twist it. Rational people can see what you are doing.


Yes, it does speak volumes, but not in the way you presume. You don't realize that it murders your own point when you do that. The situation is not equal, you aren't arguing on the level. If you intend to argue about second-string characters use second-string EXAMPLES. The only female character on the level with Hal is Wonder Woman. When arguing someone who's using Jade as an example, bring up the other Infinitors -- the only ones to get out of IC intact were Obsidian and Brainwave. You could have had a good strong argument that would have continued the debate with good will, but instead you were overdefensive and reactionary.
ddf
Ragnell
Once again this, well when it was a debate, was about GL as a whole. You just either can't understand this or refuse to once again. The complaint is the trend of bad things that happen to women involved in GL. The counter is to show that all the things happen to the male ones too. EVEN the main ones. The only one that has been defensive and reactionary is you. I just point out facts while you throw out straws. Funny though.

Onme you're finished doing that, you bring the other person, ideally, a little around to your way of thinking. Be prepared to face their counters. This way, you make headway and come to productive conclusions rather than a screaming fest.
ddf
Ragnell
When someone like you, who has a set agenda they are trying to prove and will deny and ignore reality and reduce themselves to throwing out empty cliches in a debate bc they can't argue, there unfortunately can't be a productive conclusion. You choose to make your reality up, which is fine. But don't expect most to give it merit



Here you are casting an assumption on my argument. I never once said that ALL things MUST be female to be right. I said that it is unfair that we see a story set-up so often with a female character in one role and a male in the other, but it happens so rarely the other way around that I have to sit and think to come up with an argument against it. Half the population is female, so logically for things to be right, to be equal, half of the time we'd see a woman in one position and the other half we'd see a man in that position.

Don't argue against ghosts, argue against the actual argument. That way, you can make headway.
ddf
Ragnell
Once again, proving your own point wrong. Like I said, males have no problem w/female casts. You continually point out that you believe things aren't right until the casts are equal. And if there are more males, that's sexism. Which it's not. But it feels good shouting on a soapbox.



You haven't. You're arguing against a broad category of views while you say you're going after a specific point. As a result, arguments that do not apply to the person you are debating against are creeping into the debate. It weakens your stance. Were you to actually argue my points, we'd have a productive discussion.
ddf
Ragnell
I was arguing with JLG. You took it upon yourself to come in the thread and add subjects such as Jade. You even talked about a debate about Jade that I WASN"T EVEN IN...lol.....but you're accusing someone else of making arguments that do not apply to a person. That's too funny and is just continuing a pattern you keep showing.



I've yet to see this. I've seen some non-feminist arguments presented as feminist. I've seen some conclusions jumped to. I've seen overdefensiveness of favorite characters leading to suspicion. I have yet to see "Everything is sexist no matter what." The majority of people are open to the debate, but you have to be willing to examine the idea. You start off your argument by painting the other person as crazy.

For example, I said l'd be able to list 4 female characters before we got to the second. You thought of one -- Natu's predecessor. I can think of Jade, Alex, Katma, Elektra before I get to Terry Long, then Pantha, Gwen Stacy, Sue Dibny, Arisia and now I'm short on men again.

I can't think of any, whether that's due to actual truth or just my perception allows me to remember the women only is up in the air. We could ahve had a productive discussion examining whether or not this is truly unequal, but instead you chose to write it off as a ridiculous and extremist thought not worth examining.

How can you possibly expect to have a productive discussion that way? You just put the other person on the defensive.
ddf
Ragnell

Once again you are seeing what you want to see. You and others continue to point and claim everything is sexist, and then you act like you don't, like your somehow being moderate. I had more examples, but amazingly you ignored them and claim I just stated one. How out of character of you.

Only because you don't know how to make headway in an argument. You're picking at strawfeminists here. You need to read someone's post and go after the actual weak points, not some imaginary evil. You need to argue against the individual you've run into, not everyone you've ever argued with before. This is not some Feminist Hive Mind you've run into. These are individuals with individual concerns.

I'm trying to help you, Chris!
ddf
Ragnell
LOL....I approached you as an individual in the previous thread. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I explained to you that as an individual I didn't find that you were claiming anything sexist or misogynistic. I took every indiviual claim situation and character and explained each one. I explained and admitted the reality that comics are largely dominated by male writers and readers and I understand that that can be frustrating as a female reader.

This is when you went downhill and started to show your true colors by claiming the fact that there are more males in an indusrty that it's completely sexist, and anyone who disagrees is wrong. You then only tried to twist things and say that I was being sexist and using sexism to defend sexism(who's being defensive?)

I honestly tried to have a decent debate. You have repeatedly showed that you can't. Your arguments have ranged from avoiding, twisting, rationalising to yourself to straight out completely being dishonest. And I really think that's a shame because you are only tainting the arguments and points you want to bring up and making it harder for others to do so and be taken seriously.
Last edited by Chris D.; August 11th, 2006 at 11:46 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Jeffrey Neary is offline   #173
Jeffrey Neary's Avatar
Jeffrey Neary
I love it!!!

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 11,034

Default

And you call me long winded?

 
You ought to stop making assumptions and thinking the worst about people you don't know, and situations you aren't in a position to understand

-EVS
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Sk8maven is offline   #174
Sk8maven's Avatar
Sk8maven
persona non grata

 
joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,451

Default

I got that because you addressed the wrong point. Maven based her accusation on the idea it was based off the Lensmen novels, which was a weak point you could easily have gone after.
ddf
Ragnell
There ARE strong parallels between the "Green Lantern Corps" as originally designed, and the Lensman series - especially the notion of specifically chosen representatives equipped with all-powerful devices. On the other hand, the original creators said they didn't specifically pattern the GL Corps after the Lensmen.

By the time the Corps added members named "Arisia" and "Eddore", though, it was pretty obvious that DC had picked up on the parallels and was nodding in their general direction.

Late in the series, four select Lensmen get upgrades to "Second Stage" or "Level 2", making them super-special even among their own kind. But no other characters had to be sacrificed for this to happen.

I don't think it's too big a reach to say Kyle was being made a "Second Stage Green Lantern" - but boy howdy was it infuriatingly done!

Oh - Ragnell, you mentioned Wonder Woman? She's the ONE possible example of a prominent female character whose male support gets killed off just to cause her grief and angst. Pre-COIE, DC did it to Steve Trevor - twice. (Post-COIE, they made him too old to be any possible romantic interest to her - and fans have never accepted it.) Recently, they did it to her again - with Trevor Barnes (whom fans never accepted in the first place).

Maven
 
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #175
TJLamb0518's Avatar
TJLamb0518
Klinton Spilsbury 4Ever

 
joined: Dec 2002
Location: East Islip, NY
Posts: 25,599

Default

Of course, in CoIE, the E-2 Wonder Woman got shipped off to Olympus without barely a mention and the E-1 Wonder Woman got zapped into clay as almost an afterthought.
 
Writing Reality Checks with my mouth that my body can't cash....

In new DCU, book drops you. - Yakov Didio
Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2006   Jeffrey Neary is offline   #176
Jeffrey Neary's Avatar
Jeffrey Neary
I love it!!!

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 11,034

Default

Far from an afterthought....it was tactical. The intent of the scene was to clear the field so George Perez could relaunch the character. To me thats pretty major.

Afterthought implies that they didn't have plans for Diana at all so they just opted to kill her.
 
You ought to stop making assumptions and thinking the worst about people you don't know, and situations you aren't in a position to understand

-EVS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2000-2008 Comic Bloc All characters and titles are © by their respective owners.