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Old July 23rd, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #49
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Ragnell
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You want to claim sexism. You want to see sexism. So that's what you'll see. Any argument otherwise you try to rationalize away. Even when it's objectively debated, that in itself becomes sexist. When it's shown how positively a large # of females are portrayed, it's ignored. When it's shown what the male characters also go through, all of a sudden listing what happens to characters isn't a good argument. But it's a great argument when people start out listing what happens to females. Constantly claiming everytime something negative happens to any female characters is wrong, and in fact that's sexist. I've given examples and there are plenty more of titles with female leads. They have tried for female readers plenty if times.
ddf
Chris D.
Let's see if this telepathy that tells you what I want so badly to see works both ways.

You don't want to see the sexism. You don't want to admit that its there. Even when things are pointed out time and time again to you, you rationalize it away as a neutral situation. You're blind to the facts. You're assuming arguments that I did not make. You refuse to see it, so you never will.

You show a number of positive portrayals that are no longer in effect, so someone says that's a problem. You say a lot of men are mistreated. I point out they recover more often, and there are more of them. This is a problem. That there are are more of them. You say, no its not a problem. It's reality. I say the reality of the situation is the problem.

You graft every feminist argument you've ever heard onto me and try to paint me as an extremist and invalidate everything I say.

You say they tried for female readers, and I've never seen it.

This argument will go nowhere. You're hung up on what other people said, so you're ignoring what I have to say.

This is why I tried to cut off the argument earlier. Somehow, I knew it would come to this. It always does. One person refuses to see a problem, the other person can't ignore. It's going to go nowhere.

Look back at the answers, it's almost a 50/50 split. Hal vs Kyle in a totally different field. I'm dropping this before a Mod steps in.
Last edited by Ragnell; July 23rd, 2006 at 11:23 PM.
 
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Old July 23rd, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #50
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Let's see if this telepathy that tells you what I want so badly to see works both ways.

You don't want to see the sexism. You don't want to admit that its there. Even when things are pointed out time and time again to you, you rationalize it away as a neutral situation. You're blind to the facts. You're assuming arguments that I did not make. You refuse to see it, so you never will.
ddf
Ragnell
I have explained that there IS a discrepency in male to female characters. I have explained why it exists. This is just a fact. I have stated that I understand , how hard it must be sometimes as a female comic reader. I have explained and debated against the perceptions of sexism and misogyny by others and yourself, all of which are brushed off, ignored and then thrown back at me that it's sexist to debate against any accusations of sexism. You don't even want to consider any facts or anything other that there is sexism.

You show a number of positive portrayals that are no longer in effect, so someone says that's a problem. You say a lot of men are mistreated. I point out they recover more often, and there are more of them. This is a problem. That there are are more of them. You say, no its not a problem. It's reality. I say the reality of the situation is the problem.
ddf
Ragnell
I have shown and told you that there are many portrayals that ARE in effect. Once again you don't want to see them. That's fine. They recover more often bc they SELL. Hal Jordan is selling over 80,000. Kyle and Guy are selling. The women all of which besides Katma and Jade(who will probably be back too) are back. The women characters are all supporting characters that couldn't sell near what the others do, that's why the guys come back quicker although they go through just as much crap. I'm sorry to say but basically Hal and Kyle are the franchise. They are what it's based on. The rest, including John and Guy are supporters. That's what the title is.

lYou graft every feminist argument you've ever heard onto me and try to paint me as an extremist and invalidate everything I say.

You say they tried for female readers, and I've never seen it.

This argument will go nowhere. You're hung up on what other people said, so you're ignoring what I have to say.
ddf
Ragnel
I thought it was obvious I was bringing in the general sexist perceptions that are stated as well as your specific ones. I stated early on that I didn't think you were being extremist, although that seemed to change as it went on. I've been reading comics for a long time. I ran a store for awile. I have seen an endless amount of good female characters be created and pushed. I have never seen hardly any interest shown by females for comic books.

This is why I tried to cut off the argument earlier. Somehow, I knew it would come to this. It always does. One person refuses to see a problem, the other person can't ignore. It's going to go nowhere.

Look back at the answers, it's almost a 50/50 split. Hal vs Kyle in a totally different field. I'm dropping this before a Mod steps in.
ddf
Ragnell

I stopped the argument. You then went on to say that showing a broad objective view of what happens to all characters isn't even a debate. I just gave a ...lol....you wanted started up the debate again.

That's cool we should just stop bc you are right, this is going absolutely nowhere.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #51
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Chris, if I missed anything in your last post its because I found your last opening paragraph too insulting to read past. It was saying that I was only seeing what I wanted to see, when in fact I was seeing a number of things I definitely did not want to see. It was also attributing arguments made by other people to me.

That is why I only quoted and addressed the first paragraph.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #52
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So now technically you don't even listen!!!......if i wanted that, I'd talk to a male
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #53
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So now technically you don't even listen!!!......if i wanted that, I'd talk to a male
ddf
Chris D.
You keep trying to end this on a joke, but that's just even more insulting and dismissive. That is why I reopened the argument with your lol.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #54
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You keep trying to end this on a joke, but that's just even more insulting and dismissive. That is why I reopened the argument with your lol.
ddf
Ragnell

I know, bc females always try to have the last word...like you just tried again...but no....
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #55
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I know, bc females always try to have the last word...like you just tried again...but no....
ddf
Chris D.
I didn't realize you were a woman, Chris, because you're trying for the last word just as hard.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #56
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I didn't realize you were a woman, Chris, because you're tyring for the last word just as hard.
ddf
Ragnell

I can honestly say that i've never tyred in my life, but I do enjoy the good natured fun of not letting the girl get the last word.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #57
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Ragnell
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I can honestly say that i've never tyred in my life, but I do enjoy the good natured fun of not letting the girl get the last word.
ddf
Chris D.
It's far from good natured by this point.

I'd venture to say you're just turned on by angry women.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #58
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It's far from good natured by this point.

I'd venture to say you're just turned on by angry women.
ddf
Ragnell

Well I don't get upset or irritated over messageboards so it's good natured for me.


And nah, not really into the angry women thing.
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #59
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Well I don't get upset or irritated over messageboards so it's good natured for me.


And nah, not really into the angry women thing.
ddf
Chris D.
Then why keep going?
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Dan Loayza is offline   #60
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Who wants ice cream?
 
#HEEL
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Old July 24th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #61
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Then why keep going?
ddf
Ragnell

yes, why?
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Ragnell is offline   #62
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Who wants ice cream?
ddf
Dan Loayza
You caused a 45 minute AIM conversation on which Green Lanterns match up with which ice cream flavors, you realize this, right?
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #63
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You caused a 45 minute AIM conversation on which Green Lanterns match up with which ice cream flavors, you realize this, right?
ddf
Ragnell

you had a convo matching the GL's with Ice cream flavors??? That sounds scary......
 
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Old July 24th, 2006   Joshua Pantalleresco is offline   #64
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1) Have you ever read Green Lantern?
ddf
Ragnell
Yes
3) If yes, has Green Lantern, as a franchise, been misogynystic?
ddf
Ragnell
No. There have been some brutal moments with characters both male and female in the book.

5) Are you reading now?
ddf
Ragnell
Yes.

6) If yes, is it getting better?
ddf
Ragnell
Definitely

7) Which Green Lantern, either gender, is your favorite?
ddf
Ragnell
Kyle Rayner

8) What do you think of Dr. Soranik Natu as a character?
ddf
Ragnell
I think she's one of the better characters introduced in the corps. She's a doctor, yet at the same time can't shake the yolk that this ring belonged to the biggest renegade in the corps, and that her whole life she viewed the GLs as villains. Solid character.

9) Do you think Katma Tui's marriage to John Stewart undermined her character?
ddf
Ragnell
As stated by someone else, it didn't add to the character, nor did it really detract. The courtship between them was more interesting in my view.

10) Which female "Lost Lantern" do you want back the most?
ddf
Ragnell
Laira
11) Carol Ferris as Star Sapphire. Describe what type of villainess she was.
ddf
Ragnell
A joke at first. Her heart really wasn't in it. However, when she and the predator merged to create Star Sapphire she became a real psycho. Englehart's run and explanation behind Sapphire is a really cool story. On that note however, she never was taken seriously again until Gerald Jones brought her back in Vol. 3. However, she could be a very good villain for Hal in particular.[/quote]
12) Who has been the strongest GL (any of the 5 Earthmen, any book they appeared in) love interest?
ddf
Ragnell
I never read Guy's adventures in JLA so this is without that...I'd have to say Carol Ferris with Hal.

13) Why?
ddf
Ragnell
She was tough, firey and was every bit a match for Hal in terms of willpower in a lot of ways. But I also remember that she demanded a lot from him. He even quit the corps for her. Sadly, that same Star Sapphire story mentioned above ended it. But they had had a relationship for almost the whole run up until that point.

JP
 
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