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Old November 3rd, 2008   SageShinigami is offline   #1
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Default Comic Book Pitches...That Never Became Comic Books

After seeing Ben Morse's Wizard Pitches that Never Were thread, I got to thinking about something I saw on another thread yesterday, about a Mark Waid Aquaman pitch that never came to fruition:

http://absorbascon.blogspot.com/2007...ect-pitch.html

I found it incredibly interesting and when I read it I wondered what other pitches for characters never quite worked out.

Fellow fans, is there a site for this sort of thing? If not, have you heard of one that you really liked and wished would've become a book? If you can, try and link to it. Otherwise just tell us about it.

For the creators here, do you have any pitches that never quite worked out? Obviously I'm not asking for ones which you could still turn into books, but maybe those that you feel the window for them still being viable has passed?
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   Bill Walko is offline   #2
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Dude, there's soooooo many pitches that go nowhere, you have no idea.... Here's a few that come to mind...

1-- Alan Moore's "Twilight of the Super-heroes"
http://www.hoboes.com/Comics/Twilight/

"The core of the story—the actual 12 or so issue series—takes place twenty or thirty years in the future. The “framing device” involves heroes of the future attempting to warn the heroes of the past of what is happening, so that the heroes of the past (which is DC’s present continuity) can try to avert the disaster.

The first thing that happens is that a bunch of the time-traveling heroes in DC Comics, such as Rip Hunter and the Legion of Superheroes, notice a Time Trapper plot that cuts off 1990 to 2010 from normal time travel. Some of them, investigating the problem, get stuck inside the time “fluke” created by the Time Trapper, so that they are forced to watch the Ragnarok take place, unable to return to their home times.

Constantine, twenty years into the future, is as manipulative and on top of things as he ever was in the past. In fact, he’ll be the character running throughout the “crossovers” in the various series of the current time-line."

2-- Morrison/Millar/Waid/Peyer "Superman Now" Proposal in 1999

Morrsion on ALL-STAR SUPERMAN: "Some of it has its roots in the DC One Million project from 1999. So much so, that some readers have come to consider this a prequel to DC One Million, which is fine if it shifts a few more copies! I've tried to give my own DC books an overarching continuity intended to make them all read as a more coherent body of work when I'm done."

"Luthor's 'enlightenment' - when he peaks on super-senses and sees the world as it appears through Superman's eyes - was an element I'd included in the Superman Now pitch I prepared along with Mark Millar, Tom Peyer and Mark Waid back in 1999. There were one or two of ideas of mine that I wanted to preserve from Superman Now and Luthor's heart-stopping moment of understanding was a favorite part of the original ending for that story, so I decided to use it again here."

The four writers wrote a lengthy proposal in 1999, and it did, among other things, undo Clark and Lois' marriage and have her forget Superman's secret identity.

3-- Marv Wolfman's Post-Crisis Barry Allen Plans

BECAUSE YOU DEMANDED IT! flash lives!!!
courtesy of http://www.marvwolfman.com

"For those hundreds of people who have been asking how I intended to bring back Barry Allen from death in "Crisis On Infinite Earths" the answer will now be revealed once an for all! If you remember, Flash was moving backward through time, from the future to the (1985) present. Occasionally he would pop up for an instant before the time stream closed up on him once again. My idea was to pluck him out of one second of time. From this moment on Barry would know that the time stream could close in on him for the last time at any instant. For the first time in his life, Barry understood that every moment mattered to him. He therefore had to do as much good as he could knowing any moment might be his last. Because it was felt by some (not me) that Barry wasn't as dynamic a character as many others, I thought this character alteration would make him more interesting to the readers at large. I could bring him back from the dead and add a dynamic tension to the character that others felt he lacked. I proposed this solution from Day one, but for good or bad - your decision - it wasn't taken. Was I right? Well, I think it would have given Barry the 'oomph' some thought he lacked. On the other hand, Wally West as the new Flash has been an incredibly popular character for fifteen years now."

- Marv Wolfman

4-- X-Men/New Teen Titans #2: The team-up you didn't see
http://titanstower.com/source/libcutting/xmen2.html

Marvel and DC Present the Uncanny X-Men and the New Teen Titans #1 was printed in 1982. It featured a story by Jim Shooter, Louise Jones, Len Wein and Chris Claremont - and art by Walter Simonson. In the story, the X-Men and the Teen Titans joined forces against Darkseid, Deathstroke the Terminator and Dark Phoenix. Teaming up the most popular teams from Marvel and DC was a resounding success. So successful, that a sequel was planned.

The second crossover was announced in the NEW TEEN TITANS #29 letter's page: " Yes, we hereby announce the next TEEN TITANS/X-MEN meeting, scheduled for Christmas 1983, this time produced by DC. drawn by George Perez and written by me, Marv Wolfman. If you're interested in making suggestions as to Who the villains should be. please hurry. We're going to begin working on the story any week now. And since we really liked Chris's. Walt's and Terry's work on number one, well. Our job is going to be even harder. We went to produce the best team-up yet."

The next mention of the team-up was in NEW TEEN TITANS #38 letter's page: "The second Titans/X-Men team-up will be published later this year if schedules are willing. George will be drawing it and Marv will write. It should be a goodie. One advanced bit of info is the villains: Brother Blood and The Hellfire Club. Interested now?" Yes, we were, Marv. But unfortunately, we'd never see the second team-up. It was eventually scrapped because of a fall-out between Marvel and DC concerning JLA/Avengers, which was also being planned at this time.

[from a Marv Wolfman Interview - Amazing Heroes #50, 1984]: "Wolfman has also been affected by the apparent death of the JLA/Avengers book, because he was slated as the writer for the follow-up Titans/X-Men comic. Wolfman says, "I'm sorry it happened. I'm not angry at anybody. I'm more sorry from a financial viewpoint that I am anything else, because the Titans/X-Men would have done phenomenally well. I would have loved to have pocketed the money. The only thing I'm really sorry about is that the companies didn't talk to each other properly. I don't know who's at fault, I don't get involved with politics. It doesn't really matter to me who's at fault. I'm sorry because I would have loved to do the Titans/X-Men. I had worked out a real good plot. The week before it all fell through, Chris Claremont came over and typed in the next year's worth of X-Men into my word processor so that I could work on it and know exactly how to fit it into continuity. We talked about a lot of stuff that would go into the book. Chris had given me some ideas; I had given him some ideas on the first one. I think it could have been a fun story.""

Today, Marv does recall a little of what was planned: "I hadn't worked out the story because I almost never do until it's necessary. If I'm plotting a series, I plot out in advance the characters movement but not the specifics of the plot. I would have actually plotted the story had we been given the go-ahead. All I worked out in advance was the villains and that it would be a darker story than the first crossover."

Well, JLA/Avengers eventually happened 20 years later. Can we have our Titans/X-Men as well?

5-- Rob Liefeld's Titans West Series
http://titanstower.com/source/libhunt/liefeld.html

Rob Liefeld is a big Titans fan and belonged to a Titans Amateur Press Association called TTalk. Liefeld pitched a Titans Series to DC Comics which featured an Arsenal-led team sponsored by the government, and under media scrutiny. Sound familiar? Rob's idea morphed into the YOUNGBLOOD series - you can see Shaft 'subbing' for Speedy/Arsenal.

Rob Liefeld Titans

Wolfman isn't content with the two Titans books-he's planning a mini-series starring one of the most popular team members. "Nightwing could certainly carry a full series, but why try to get one out every month? His stuff is very complicated. The storyline is going to cross three generations: Batman, Nightwing and Robin."

Additionally, there may be a third Titans title involving a hot young talent currently working on a Marvel Comics bestseller. "They've been talking about a mini-series with Rob Liefeld," Wolfman says, "but I don't know what the final thing is."

[From Comic Scene #24, February 1991]

Liefeld's Titans Go Awry

Writer Mary Wolfman (in CS #24) reported that Liefeld had been talking to DC Comics about doing a possible Titans mini-series. Negotiations have since fallen through, however, and Liefeld offers both his side of the story and its relationship to Youngblood.

"I love controversy," he laughs. "My favorite characters as a kid were the X-Men and the Teen Titans. I work in the X-Men office now, but I don't work on the X-Men. The New Mutants was my way of doing my own version of the X-Men, and XForce is kind of that now. "At the time, I was looking to do another project. Youn~hlood was already being talked about with Malibu and Dave Olbrich, but I really wanted to do something with the Titans. I always loved that series, and it was like, ‘Wow, if I could do the Titans and the X-Men at the same time, I could die a happy man.'

"[My idea] was something called Team Titans or Titans Force, whatever. It was just me, at this point, pursuing a fan boy's dream, and I was really into it. I talked to the Titans editor [Jonathan Peterson] about doing this for DC, entered negotiations and sent some drawings and character designs."

Liefeld went into the negotiations with a set creative team for the book, but unfortunately, things didn't work out the way he planned. "[DC said] ‘We don't want to do this. We want to do this. We want to use your characters and your concepts, but we want it to be done this way.' My attitude was, ‘Look, if it's not broke, don't fix it.' It just got ridiculous. Negotiations fell off, and I said, ‘OK. Well, what I've got here is some real strong stuff,' so I just bounced it into Youngblood. So, yes, many of the characters you'll see in Youngblood were to be part of a new Teen Titans team that I would have created from the ground up. It would have just tied in to the Titans universe. Some of these characters would have fit perfectly into the DC universe, but unfortunately, that's not the way it goes."

[From Comic Scene #25, February 1992]

Liefeld's Titans/Youngblood Connection

RAMA: And for fans who may not know, in the early ‘90s you were in negotiations with DC about doing a Titans limited series with Arsenal and Speedy which eventually morphed into...

RL: I proposed a new Titans book in 1991, Team Titans was the proposal, Jon Peterson who edited the book approved it, Marv Wolfman signed on to co-write it and then I couldn't make the deal with Dick Giordano. God bless him, we just couldn't make the numbers work. So I took my proposal and merged it with an existing indie project I had called Youngblood. Next thing you know, POOF...Image comics was born.

NRAMA: Can you tell us about the circumstances surrounding that time and that project?

RL: Shaft was intended to be Speedy. Vogue was a new Harlequin design, Combat was a Kh'undian warrior circa the Legion of Super Heroes, ditto for Photon and Die Hard was a Star Labs android. I forgot who Chapel was supposed to be. So there you have it, the secret origin of Youngblood.

[From http://www.newsarama.com, April 2005]

Titans Editor Jonathan Peterson on Liefeld's Titans Plans

TTC: At one point, Rob Liefeld was developing a Titans West mini-series. It had Speedy as leader of a government sponsored Titans team called Titans Force. What became of that?

JP: That was me! Yeah, I called Rob up, and he was working for Marvel at that time. I even gave Rob some of his first work. He drew Checkmate # 3 for me. I was always friendly with Rob, and there was some sort of falling out over X-Force, as I recall. I remember talking with him on the phone about doing a Titans book at that time. There was initially some concern with DC over money and matching what he got for New Mutants, or whatever. I remember I really wanted to do it, and he really wanted to do it. Rob was actually really pumped about it. I never have anything bad to say about Rob.

TTC: Was there ever a lineup created for it?

JP: I’m trying to remember. I do remember it eventually became Youngblood. If you look at the character of Shaft, that was what Speedy’s design looked like at one point. This all happened right before Image Comics formed, so then Rob eventually used some of those ideas there.

[from The Titans Companion, 2005]

6-- Art Thibert on the Nightwing Mini-Series
http://titanstower.com/source/libhun...gmini1991.html

I asked Art Thibert about the aborted Nightwing mini-series at the 4th Annual New York International Sci-Fi & Fantasy Creators Convention in 2003. He told me the whole overview.

As the mini-series opened, Starfire confronted Nightwing about 'where their relationship was heading'. They had been dating for a few years and reached the point in their relationship where it had to take the next big step. Before any decisions were made, an alien invasion threatened the earth, taking Starfire hostage. Nightwing investigated and started formulating a plan to stop the invasion and rescue Starfire.

Meanwhile, the other heroes in the DC Universe learned of the alien threat and mounted a counter-offense. But Batman stopped them from taking any action when he realized Nightwing already had the situation accessed and was confident his former sidekick could handle it on his own.

Nightwing is able to reach the aliens and stop the invasion - as well as rescue Starfire. The mini-series would end with Nightwing cradling Starfire in his arms, emerging from the alien stronghold. A crowd of DC heroes would part to watch Nightwing emerge with Starfire in his arms, having defeated the alien threat. Now reunited with Kory, Nightwing proposes marriage and she accepts.

The mini was geared to establish Nightwing's 'coming of age' as a major, competant hero in the DC Universe. Art Thibert said Marv Wolfman read the overview to the mini-series and approved it. Unfortunately, there was a major editorial shift and Thibert was offered a very lucrative offer from MARVEL to do CABLE. With NIGHTWING in doubt, Thibert opted to take the CABLE assignment, much to the loss of Titans fans.

Scrapped Titans Stories and Plans
http://titanstower.com/source/libcutting/00libcut.html

I devoted a whoel page to that stuff!

There's ao many of 'em!
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   odessasteps is offline   #3
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one of the twomorrows magazines, Back Issue I think, has a running "projects that never happened" feature.
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   SageShinigami is offline   #4
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Dude, there's soooooo many pitches that go nowhere, you have no idea.... Here's a few that come to mind...
ddf
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Dude, I'd actually forgotten about Twilight of the Superheroes and Superman 2000, but that just proves my point--a lot of the stuff that doesn't come to pass is actually more interesting than what does!


Scrapped Titans Stories and Plans
http://titanstower.com/source/libcutting/00libcut.html

I devoted a whole page to that stuff!

There's so many of 'em!
ddf
Thanks man!
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   galschwartz is offline   #5
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Default COYOTE by Englehart & Breyfogle in the DC UNIVERSE !

I don't know the story details, but in 1997 Steve Englehart & Norm Breyfogle pitched a new COYOTE series which was supposed to take place in the DC UNIVERSE proper !

I was lucky enough to buy the 2 presentation art pieces from that pitch,
enjoy:

http://qurls.com?i=36912

http://qurls.com?i=34053
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   galschwartz is offline   #6
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Default BATMAN by Brian K. Vaughan !

In early 2000, after the end of NO MAN'S LAND Brian K. Vaughan almost
took over as a regular writer on BATMAN.

One of his major plans was around an all-new villain he had created -
THE SKELETON !

This is one of the most intriguing unresolved subplots in the Bat-Books:
A mystery villain (created by Brian K. Vaughan !) who impersonates other
rogues in order to sabotage Wayne industries.
This villain is supposed to be someone very close to Bruce Wayne,
but whose true identity was never revealed.

Though the full story never came to be, a preview story DID see print in
GOTHAM CITY SECRET FILES #1.

Illustrated by Marcos Martin with Mark Pennington:

http://qurls.com?i=44964

http://qurls.com?i=44965
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   oddballuk is offline   #7
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I read about the Waid/Wieringo Aquaman pitch over a year ago and still really wish Waid and Wieringo had gotten the go ahead to run with it. Especially since now, after Wieringo's death, I think Waid has gone on to say he couldn't do it now without him.



The Superman 2000/Superman Now was anothe missed opportunity though I can see why some editors were against it at the time. Thankfully we've seen alot of it re-used in All Star Superman and even Geoff Johns seems to have tapped into some of those concepts in his current Action Comics run.

Another pitch that never happened was Gerard Jones' original Emerald Twilight plans for GL #48 - 50:

http://www.glcorps.org/gl48-50.html

The last minute ditch of this proposal lead to the hastilly developed story that replaced it ending with Hal as Parallax and a new GL in Kyle. While we got a great character out of the changes in Kyle, even I as a big Kyle fan, can admit the the changes made to Hal at the time were very sudden and not handled as well as it could have been.

There is also the Mike Carey Firestorm pitch that even got solicited and Carey gave interviews for before it was pulled and then replaced with the Dan Jolley written series that introduced Jason Rusch:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=1851

Again, a good character came out of the change in Jason but the changes happened quickly involving the death/removal of Ronnie Raymond. Hopefully rumors of Ronnie's return in Blackest Night might result in a version of Firestorm that will please fans of Ronnie and Jason (and I am a fan of both myself).
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   SageShinigami is offline   #8
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I read about the Waid/Wieringo Aquaman pitch over a year ago and still really wish Waid and Wieringo had gotten the go ahead to run with it. Especially since now, after Wieringo's death, I think Waid has gone on to say he couldn't do it now without him.

ddf
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Yeah, seeing you bring up that pitch led to me looking for it and eventually creating this thread. Thanks dude.
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   oddballuk is offline   #9
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Yeah, seeing you bring up that pitch led to me looking for it and eventually creating this thread. Thanks dude.
ddf
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You're very welcome!
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   galschwartz is offline   #10
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I love this thread.
I hope my links are working again
(they were broken up for about an hour).

Any other Wieringo art from the Aquaman pitch ?
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   oddballuk is offline   #11
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I love this thread.
I hope my links are working again
(they were broken up for about an hour).

Any other Wieringo art from the Aquaman pitch ?
ddf
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Unfortunately blogger.com is blocked at my workplace so I can't remember or check what art is shown at the Aquaman Shrine Blog but here is a link to Mike Wieringo's own comments on the pitch from his site:

http://www466.pair.com/mringo/2007/0...were-fishes-2/

He has some art there too:

 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   DeTroyes is offline   #12
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Scrapped Titans Stories and Plans
http://titanstower.com/source/libcutting/00libcut.html

I devoted a whoel page to that stuff!

There's ao many of 'em!
ddf
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*sigh*

I would have loved to have seen Titans LA...

OH, and count me in as another vote for X-Men/Titans #2.... although I think I would rather see it as a crossover with the characters as they are currently in their respective universes.
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   oddballuk is offline   #13
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Some additional Aquaman storylines that never were...

PAD's plans for Aquaman post #50 that were rejected:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-revealed-169/

It all came to a head with a story David had set up to lead into the 50th issue of the book. In the storyline, Aquaman would take on Triton, God of the Seas and die defending Poseidonis (capitol of Atlantis).

Garth would then take over the ruling of Atlantis, but, after some time being “dead,” Aquaman would return as the new DC water elemental, as a being made out of water.

Ultimately, David’s plan was to have him returned back to human via the intervention of Mera, complete with his hand back. Garth would stay in charge of Atlantis, though, and Aquaman would travel the world as a sort of ambassador to Atlantis.

DC turned down the story, telling David that, after the Death of Superman, no one would fall for such a stunt again.
ddf
It is also noted how much of PAD's plans were later used for the character afterall with Aquaman and Atlantis' disappearance/deaths during the Superman: Our Worlds At War event and the Obsidian Age storyline in JLA.
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   oddballuk is offline   #14
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Another:

Green Lantern Corpse mini by Keith Champagne & Jamal Igle.

Originally a mini spinning out of the popular arc in the Green Lantern Corps monthly, now shelved.

Discussed in this thread:

http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58912

With some art from the project in this post:

http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/show...9&postcount=22
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   Scott Mateo is offline   #15
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There were plans for a new Captain Atom series after #50 with teases of Project Ashanti and a lot of loose threads that have yet to be addressed.
 
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Old November 3rd, 2008   JRCarter is offline   #16
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What Jim Valentino had planned for Guardians of the Galaxy if he hadn't left:

http://www.imagecomics.com/messagebo...r=asc&start=30

Dwayne McDuffie's Script Links (scroll down to "The Ones That Got Away"):

http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/Scripts.html

John Byrne's planned story for the final battle between Wolverine and Sabretooth:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/lis...Storylines#207
 
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