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Old April 15th, 2013   Mark MacMillan is offline   #49
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I know this is a foolish comment and I'm asking for it, but really, at this point, I can't imagine anything making things WORSE.

I'd be up for anything else.
ddf
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Welcome back. Anyway, I just want a selection of well crafted books to pick and choose from.

I think we all can agree on that.

Less hype, more substance.

Sales might start off low, but eventually quality usually speaks for itself if you stick with it through the long run.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #50
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Welcome back. Anyway, I just want a selection of well crafted books to pick and choose from.

I think we all can agree on that.

Less hype, more substance.

Sales might start off low, but eventually quality usually speaks for itself if you stick with it through the long run.
ddf
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That's what I would like to believe, at least...
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   starks is offline   #51
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I'm happy with how things are. No change is needed for me.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Mark MacMillan is offline   #52
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That's what I would like to believe, at least...
ddf
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It's true that controversy and hype sells, but in DC's case, I think 30+ years of it has worn thin on readers.

They just have to stop throwing things out there without any rhyme or reason.

Every book should have a well thought out direction planned for it and should be allowed to follow through with that plan for at least 12 issues.

If it's gained enough of an immediate following to continue, then let it. If not, cancel it, put it out in TPB, and see if the quality speaks for itself there.

That way, if there is enough of a demand for more of the book, you can bring it back a second time to try and supply that demand.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #53
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It's true that controversy and hype sells, but in DC's case, I think 30+ years of it has worn thin on readers.

They just have to stop throwing things out there without any rhyme or reason.

Every book should have a well thought out direction planned for it and should be allowed to follow through with that plan for at least 12 issues.

If it's gained enough of an immediate following to continue, then let it. If not, cancel it, put it out in TPB, and see if the quality speaks for itself there.

That way, if there is enough of a demand for more of the book, you can bring it back a second time to try and supply that demand.
ddf
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That makes far too much sense.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   RainKing is offline   #54
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I probably mentioned this in another thread a long time ago, but I think the only way DC could possibly please all of its fans (new & old) is if they took an approach similar to John Byrnes "Generations" Elsworlds series.

DC would divide their 52 monthly titles into 3-5 "generational groups" (golden age, silver age, modera age, etc..) and each group would focus on the heroes of a particular era.

For example, one group would focus on the JSA and other golden age DC characters. Another group would focus on the sliver age JLA, Teen Titans, Infinity Inc.,and the Charlton chacters. Another group would see the original teen titans as adults, now members of the JLA, some taking on their mentor's identities.

It will never happen, but as I said above, it may be the only way to please everyone.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #55
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I probably mentioned this in another thread a long time ago, but I think the only way DC could possibly please all of its fans (new & old) is if they took an approach similar to John Byrnes "Generations" Elsworlds series.

DC would divide their 52 monthly titles into 3-5 "generational groups" (golden age, silver age, modera age, etc..) and each group would focus on the heroes of a particular era.

For example, one group would focus on the JSA and other golden age DC characters. Another group would focus on the sliver age JLA, Teen Titans, Infinity Inc.,and the Charlton chacters. Another group would see the original teen titans as adults, now members of the JLA, some taking on their mentor's identities.

It will never happen, but as I said above, it may be the only way to please everyone.
ddf
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I would argue that it would just be a bit confusing having multiple titles with the same name but different groups. For instance, fans of the silver age JLA would want that book to be JLA, while the fans of grown up Titans in JLA would want the book to be JLA as well. Having said that, I think the New 52 approach of JL vs JLA is a smart one which could work, but I think there would still be a bit of confusion on the part of new fans.

A silver age Teen Titans vs a modern age Young Justice would confuse anyone who casually approached it and saw robin in both groups or two kid flashes (sorry, impulse and kid flash) etc etc etc.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   RainKing is offline   #56
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I would argue that it would just be a bit confusing having multiple titles with the same name but different groups. For instance, fans of the silver age JLA would want that book to be JLA, while the fans of grown up Titans in JLA would want the book to be JLA as well. Having said that, I think the New 52 approach of JL vs JLA is a smart one which could work, but I think there would still be a bit of confusion on the part of new fans.

A silver age Teen Titans vs a modern age Young Justice would confuse anyone who casually approached it and saw robin in both groups or two kid flashes (sorry, impulse and kid flash) etc etc etc.
ddf
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True, there would definitely be a number of logistical issues to overcome in DC were to make such a move. Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution to the state of the DC Universe.

One of the cool things about the DC Universe, in my opinion at least, is its multi-generation aspect. This is a unique thing that makes DC different from Marvel. For whatever reason, the heads at DC see this as a negative.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   mego joe is offline   #57
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I've wondered if the continued branding of The Nu 52 will in some way be a set up for other books along the lines that are being discussed under a different branding. Maybe DC Golden or DC Silver that would feature some of the ideas mentioned above.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #58
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True, there would definitely be a number of logistical issues to overcome in DC were to make such a move. Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution to the state of the DC Universe.

One of the cool things about the DC Universe, in my opinion at least, is its multi-generation aspect. This is a unique thing that makes DC different from Marvel. For whatever reason, the heads at DC see this as a negative.
ddf
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I agree. Part of what made me a big DC fan initially was the generational aspect, because it showed that there was real growth and, often, consequences to their characters. Barry died and Wally became the Flash. Dick Grayson left Batman and became his own hero, eventually returning to claim the Bat-mantle. The titans grew up and Young Justice appeared to fill their shoes.

I think part of the problem is that DC equates poor sales with the featured characters, whereas I think Johns' run on the Flash is a perfect counter point to this. He wrote a highly successful title with Wally, which shows, IMO, that the problem is the stories. Now, you can argue that by this point the characters have been (as someone previously stated) written into a corner, but DC has been a bit lazy in dealing with this.

Ted Kord was becoming a punchline, so Giffen launched Jaime Reyes to great success and is arguably one of the most popular characters at DC still (sales of his book not withstanding). They pigeon hole a lot of their top writers onto Batman and Superman books, and try out new writers on other characters who can often be a success but are more often a bit of a miss (i point to the Red Tornado mini-series from a few years ago). I know you'll never put a newbie on a tent-pole like Bats or Supes, but taking all your best writers up because there are something like 7 or 8 titles for each character is part of the issue here. Fewer Batbooks or Superman books would free up more writers to spread themselves over other characters. I actually admire Lemire for trying to write more B-tier characters like Green Arrow and Animal Man and the JLD.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #59
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I've wondered if the continued branding of The Nu 52 will in some way be a set up for other books along the lines that are being discussed under a different branding. Maybe DC Golden or DC Silver that would feature some of the ideas mentioned above.
ddf
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It seems to me that the continued branding is to give an idea of a more cohesive universe, since comics are usually seen as more stand alone aside from an event or seven to tie them in. I recall that part of the relaunch was to give the universe more of a consistent tone across the line.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Hannah is offline   #60
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I didn't read DC for the longest time but when finally drew me in was the Legacy aspect. As I saw the respect that a lot of the younger heroes had for the elders it made me want to learn more about them and see who they were but now that has all been replaced.

I don't mind the reboot as much as I mind how the DCU was rebooted.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #61
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It seems to me that the continued branding is to give an idea of a more cohesive universe, since comics are usually seen as more stand alone aside from an event or seven to tie them in. I recall that part of the relaunch was to give the universe more of a consistent tone across the line.
ddf
Peter Aitken View Post
In retrospect, I wish they had done the opposite.

Fictional DC Executive: "Yeah, it's a 'shared universe', but each title will stand alone. Readers can read title 'A' without needing to keep up with goings on in titles 'B' through 'Z'. Characters will interact in team-books or in team-up books. Or, if a 'guest appearance' is called for in a particular character's book, that appearance will not bleed over into the guest star's own title. 'Universe-wide' events whose stories cannot be contained within the confines of the event title itself will be complimented with one-shots or mini-series. We want every one of our titles to stand on their own two feet so as to optimize the reader's experience in relation to the work being produced by the creative teams, and to provide the maximum variety of entertainment possible."

That would make collecting books into trades a lot easier, too!
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Mark MacMillan is offline   #62
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I didn't read DC for the longest time but when finally drew me in was the Legacy aspect.
ddf
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It was okay for a time, but then they started overdoing it and legacy characters like Wally & The Titans, Infinity Inc., Tim Drake, Ted Kord, Shilo Norman, etc, lost their uniqueness and kind of became redundant for me.

I mean, Metamorpho even had a legacy character before Identity Crisis.

When everyone and their mother is/was a legacy character except for the Big 3 you know it's being overdone.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   RainKing is offline   #63
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I agree. Part of what made me a big DC fan initially was the generational aspect, because it showed that there was real growth and, often, consequences to their characters. Barry died and Wally became the Flash. Dick Grayson left Batman and became his own hero, eventually returning to claim the Bat-mantle. The titans grew up and Young Justice appeared to fill their shoes.

I think part of the problem is that DC equates poor sales with the featured characters, whereas I think Johns' run on the Flash is a perfect counter point to this. He wrote a highly successful title with Wally, which shows, IMO, that the problem is the stories. Now, you can argue that by this point the characters have been (as someone previously stated) written into a corner, but DC has been a bit lazy in dealing with this.

Ted Kord was becoming a punchline, so Giffen launched Jaime Reyes to great success and is arguably one of the most popular characters at DC still (sales of his book not withstanding). They pigeon hole a lot of their top writers onto Batman and Superman books, and try out new writers on other characters who can often be a success but are more often a bit of a miss (i point to the Red Tornado mini-series from a few years ago). I know you'll never put a newbie on a tent-pole like Bats or Supes, but taking all your best writers up because there are something like 7 or 8 titles for each character is part of the issue here. Fewer Batbooks or Superman books would free up more writers to spread themselves over other characters. I actually admire Lemire for trying to write more B-tier characters like Green Arrow and Animal Man and the JLD.
ddf
Peter Aitken View Post
That is the thing. They are all great characters, be it Jay Garrick, Barry Allen or Wally West, Ted Kord or Jaime Reyes. As you said, Ted Kord was becoming a punchline, yet in one issue (Countdown to Infinite Crisis?) Geoff Johns writes one of the best Ted Kord stories in a long time. With the right writers and artists, any of their characters would sell, but DC seems to unable to find a right match for most of its characters.

I loved Giffen's Blue Beetle (as well as his JLI) and I wish DC would give him one of their A-tier characters and see what he can do.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   RainKing is offline   #64
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It was okay for a time, but then they started overdoing it and legacy characters like Wally & The Titans, Infinity Inc., Tim Drake, Ted Kord, Shilo Norman, etc, lost their uniqueness and kind of became redundant for me.

I mean, Metamorpho even had a legacy character before Identity Crisis.

When everyone and their mother is/was a legacy character except for the Big 3 you know it's being overdone.
ddf
Mark MacMillan View Post
Yes, DC clearly did not know how to manage this aspect of their universe.

I think a better way for DC to have re-booted would have been to kill off the original JLA characters, with the exeption of Superman and the Martian Manhunter, and relaunched all of their books with the original Teen Titans in their mentors roles. DC history and contunity remain in place and they have a new entry point for new readers.
 
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