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Old October 15th, 2013   Alan is offline   #17
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So over the "creative team change = new #1"

But that ship has obviously sailed. They lost me when they ended the legacy titles back in 98. I'd probably still be reading all those books if they had kept the old numbering.

So in some ways I guess I'm thankful.
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Captain Marvel is even keeping the same writer but restarting at No 1. I can see the logic behind it (...people will buy a #1 on spec far more readily than a #16) but it doesn't feel right. I did think that they might have been netter restarting Green Arrow at #1 when Lemire and Sorentino took over though as more people might have given it a chance after the appalling mess that the previous teams had made of the book. People will always pick up a Superman or Batman book, but GA is a harder sell.

Oddly I've never really bought the FF, other than when Byrne was on the book. I keep meaning to catch up on Marvel Unlimited but don't know where to start, though I'm tempted to start at the very beginning.
 
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Old October 15th, 2013   mego joe is offline   #18
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Captain Marvel is even keeping the same writer but restarting at No 1. I can see the logic behind it (...people will buy a #1 on spec far more readily than a #16) but it doesn't feel right. I did think that they might have been netter restarting Green Arrow at #1 when Lemire and Sorentino took over though as more people might have given it a chance after the appalling mess that the previous teams had made of the book. People will always pick up a Superman or Batman book, but GA is a harder sell.

Oddly I've never really bought the FF, other than when Byrne was on the book. I keep meaning to catch up on Marvel Unlimited but don't know where to start, though I'm tempted to start at the very beginning.
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Start at the very beginning.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Danny Perkins is offline   #19
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Original numbering and new #1's don't matter to me. Good/great stories matter.
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I have no issue with that viewpoint. Ultimately you are correct, but to me they were more than just numbers. Those runs had historical significance and were thrown away over what is nothing more than a sales gimic.

In many ways what DC just did is even worse.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   chrisbenes is offline   #20
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I for one would prefer all titles go back to original numbering. I think the problem could be 2 fold.

1 - sure it's a sales ploy to try to drag in new readers but you could keep original numbering and on the cover state new direction or jumping on point or something.

2 - do writers push to be on #1's? At least the bigger name ones. I thought that years ago that was the extent to a point.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   jafabian is offline   #21
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I have no issue with that viewpoint. Ultimately you are correct, but to me they were more than just numbers. Those runs had historical significance and were thrown away over what is nothing more than a sales gimic.

In many ways what DC just did is even worse.
ddf
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See, I have a lot of boxes with comics seperated by boards. Annoying in my filing when there's several runs that have a #1 in them. And I appreciate the history of the series as a collector.

I for one would prefer all titles go back to original numbering. I think the problem could be 2 fold.

1 - sure it's a sales ploy to try to drag in new readers but you could keep original numbering and on the cover state new direction or jumping on point or something.

2 - do writers push to be on #1's? At least the bigger name ones. I thought that years ago that was the extent to a point.
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I don't believe the writers push for a #1 issue in most cases. Some might suggest it but overall I'd think it's more of a publisher's decision because it's most likely a decision that's driven by money and cost.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Amentep is offline   #22
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If I ever started a comic company, I'd use Month and Year. The whole obsession with numbering makes no sense to me.

"Why yes, that may be the greatest book ever produced, but that title should be on issue 562, but instead is on 14 and I therefore will refuse to read it".
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Amentep is offline   #23
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If I ever started a comic company, I'd use Month and Year. The whole obsession with numbering makes no sense to me.

"Why yes, that may be the greatest book ever produced, but that title should be on issue 562, but instead is on 14 and I therefore will refuse to read it".
ddf
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Man, didn't realize there was more to the thread, so now I just look like an ass with this response.

New #1s don't matter in my collection, I just file them after one another until I stop getting them.

New #1 get big sales bump; everything I've read old numbering and new creators get a lesser sales bump. Add in that sales tend to go down between stunts, new #1 are inevitable, it seems.

But then I don't really get the history argument either, to be honest. While it was "neat" to have titles that had an unbroken numbering system used from the 1930s to present, in reality had comics been like any other publishing the last "old" numbering Action comics would have been Vol. 73, Issue 4...
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Danny Perkins is offline   #24
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I for one would prefer all titles go back to original numbering. I think the problem could be 2 fold.

1 - sure it's a sales ploy to try to drag in new readers but you could keep original numbering and on the cover state new direction or jumping on point or something.

2 - do writers push to be on #1's? At least the bigger name ones. I thought that years ago that was the extent to a point.
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I actually don't want them to go back. That ship has sailed. You canceled the book. Deal with it.

What I want is for them to just stick with what they have going. I thought Marvel Now was a good opportunity for them to just let # on books go. Now if a book is cancelled for low sales or whatever, fine. But the whole Final Issue in October, Solicit #1 in November thing? No more.

Daredevil for example. There was no reason to restart that. Obviously it shouldn't have gone to volume 2 in the first place. But whats done is done. Leave it be.

I'll freely admit that the fact that this bothers me makes no sense. It is the most inconsequential of inconsequential things. But for some reason it bugs me.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Danny Perkins is offline   #25
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Man, didn't realize there was more to the thread, so now I just look like an ass with this response.

New #1s don't matter in my collection, I just file them after one another until I stop getting them.

New #1 get big sales bump; everything I've read old numbering and new creators get a lesser sales bump. Add in that sales tend to go down between stunts, new #1 are inevitable, it seems.

But then I don't really get the history argument either, to be honest. While it was "neat" to have titles that had an unbroken numbering system used from the 1930s to present, in reality had comics been like any other publishing the last "old" numbering Action comics would have been Vol. 73, Issue 4...
ddf
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The only counter-argument I'd make to your questioning of the history arguement is that clearly the publishers obviously do recognize the historical significance because whenever a key anniversary issue comes along they'll renumber it back to the old system. Which annoys even more as in my opinion you can't have your cake and eat it too.

And now I sound like every annoying fanboy I make fun of at every opporunity.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Danny Perkins is offline   #26
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The only counter-argument I'd make to your questioning of the history arguement is that clearly the publishers obviously do recognize the historical significance because whenever a key anniversary issue comes along they'll renumber it back to the old system. Which annoys even more as in my opinion you can't have your cake and eat it too.

And now I sound like every annoying fanboy I make fun of at every opporunity.
ddf
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Wow is that sentence brutal.

I'm not editing it because I think you all know what I mean, and I want to leave it as evidence of my horrible writing skills.

Please feel free to make fun of me.
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   TJLamb0518 is offline   #27
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Wow is that sentence brutal.

I'm not editing it because I think you all know what I mean, and I want to leave it as evidence of my horrible writing skills.

Please feel free to make fun of me.
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Can I make fun of you for quoting your own post from 2 minutes earlier instead of just editting that post?
 
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Old October 16th, 2013   Danny Perkins is offline   #28
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Can I make fun of you for quoting your own post from 2 minutes earlier instead of just editting that post?
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I think I said I wasn't editing it for that reason. If I edit it you wouldn't have seen it.
 
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Old October 17th, 2013   Amentep is offline   #29
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Wow is that sentence brutal.

I'm not editing it because I think you all know what I mean, and I want to leave it as evidence of my horrible writing skills.

Please feel free to make fun of me.
ddf
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I understand what you mean and understand about mistyping (and for the record I meant Volume 75 not 73).

But I still don't really "get it" in the sense that it makes sense to me; I understand its important to people but I can't fathom why other than, to some degree, numbering triggers the collectors impulse that we all have.

But then I don't get reverting to the old numbers either OTHER than stunts sell books. And as long as people purchase books for things that aren't part of the content but for things like new numbers, variant or specialty covers, "this issue someone dies", mega-cross-over-tie-ins, etc. then new #1s and anniversary #500s are going to continue.
 
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Old October 17th, 2013   superfriend is offline   #30
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as a longtime comicbook reader allow me to elaborate on numbers...

in comics, numbers are symbolic. they can mean different things that have an impact on the content itself.

#1s typically mean a fresh start. an origin, a new direction, a different style of writing or art due to creative team changes. the market embraces #1s and because of these reasons. these are the evangelistic tools of characters with long histories, or new characters who need a shot. these are what are called "jumping on points" #1s are for people who are intimidated by big numbers, who don't like getting into stories in media res. they want to start at the start and go on from there. ground floor.

big numbers are novel now as they've gone out of style. the received wisdom now is that big numbers scare people. it used to be big numbers were an indicator of stability...this comic is not just going to vanish on you, it's been going strong for decades and has the full faith and backing of the publisher and if they have anything to say about it will keep going strong for many decades to come. they carry the weight of tradition, a link to the past. those series with big numbers could carry their own load. they never fell on hard times needing the artificial gimmickry to keep them afloat. they are the stalwarts, the mature characters (or teams) and are the bedrock of their respective fictional universe which has implications that they have a good chance of being a one-stop shop with connections all around the world that they inhabit. with an uninterrupted string that leads to big numbers something has been built, something has been earned. this is for people longing to be a part of something with vast history to explore, an immersive experience that is bigger than the reader (and perhaps their lifespan to that point) that can assimilate them as a fan and make them part of a society or legion in a way. there can be a perceived strength in longevity.

mini/maxi/limited series are a hard sell these days. it used to be these would be employed as an appetizer, an amuse-bouche or hors d'oeuvre. sampling a character, giving a character a chance to shine or covering some minor element of story in a way that gives it center stage. nowadays, these don't do as well. and though they employ #1s, readers typically want to be on the ground floor of something that's going to be built to last, something with an epically long history that is going to be established and they are there at the beginning. there is no guarantee that a limited series will have the necessary gravitas for many. it could simply be filler relegated to a series designation. it could be a primer for something else without its own beginning, middle and end which softens the blow of typically trying to generate interest for a character's shot at an ongoing or a larger story in the works.

#0 or #-1 have typically lent themselves to prologue style stories. they are origins or revealing elements of a character's past. they can be used to inform existing characters or trigger an "everything you knew was wrong" opportunity for reinvention.

#.1, .2, .3, etc typically has tangential quality. these issues typically go off the beaten path to highlight other goings on or supporting characters or even villains.

numbers are largely used to manipulate the market but they carry expectations with them of story conventions. number designations can alert the market that a story is not simply another issue in succession and that it might have heightened importance/relevance--a story to pay attention to or have attention drawn to it. just like yelling or swearing or speaking in a soothing, calming manner can communicate different intentions so to can the tradition of numbering in comicbook periodical publishing.

personally, it's all rather vestigial to me. i don't trust numbers anymore to mean any of that because the symbolism of numbers has been vexed and worn out. but they had a purpose at one time. they did something...and in some cases, still do.
 
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Old October 17th, 2013   Amentep is offline   #31
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As a long time comics reader, the only thing number did for me was tell me "read this issue before that issue" when I was reading back issues.
 
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Old October 17th, 2013   superfriend is offline   #32
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As a long time comics reader, the only thing number did for me was tell me "read this issue before that issue" when I was reading back issues.
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they're good that way too, aren't they?

 
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