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Old May 29th, 2013   jafabian is offline   #1
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Arrow Remender unites Uncanny Avengers

From CBR: X-POSITION: Remender Unites "Uncanny Avengers"


Remender talks about the recent arc, additions to the roster, the Apocalypse twins and more.
 
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Old September 8th, 2014   Amentep is offline   #2
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So I've finally caught up with the end of the very, very, extremely (too) long Apocalypse twins arc. I think, all told this story took two years to tell.

And it was not worth it in the least. The Avengers solved nothing, relying instead on Kang(!) and Immortus(!!) to get them out of trouble. The finale was clumsy with the ultimate resolution to the Celestial problem (the one started with Thor killing a Celestial) was to kill the next one.

The relationship between Havok and Wasp - which felt out of character and forced when they suddenly hooked up without explanation - now has a marriage and a lost future kid. Janet pines for Alex and worries about his scar and whether she can love him now that their future kid is not in the present. Really? This is the story you bring Wasp back from the dead for? To put her in a marriage where she exists to do nothing more but worry about her husband and her (non-existant) kid?

And they gloss over how they get Sentinel to help them - apparently he's able to "walk off" being made one of the Four Horsemen.

And Wanda and Simon are seperated again, this time because Simon is stuck in Rogue's body (whose lost control of her powers again).

The twins are defeated but escape, Kang and Immortus seem to still have plans and so instead of a real resolution it feels like it is just a pause in the "action" before the whole thing starts back up again.

I'm using this opportunity to drop the book - it has nothing of interest left for me, having squandered all the potential the title had.
 
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Old September 8th, 2014   flashsuper is offline   #3
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My nephew has this on his pull list and I agree, it went way too long. I didn't really like it. In fact, I agree with all your points and I feel whomever signed off on this whole story arc didn't actually see how the story and it's ending components fleshed out.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   Matches is offline   #4
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I agree the arc went on too long, but other than that I enjoyed it. Remender writes looonnnggg stories, it's true, but I find them very satisfying over time. Once Planet X started it seemed to pick up speed, and Remender was able to revisit some of the ideas and concepts from his Uncanny X-Force run.

Wasp & Havok work for me - really nice frankly to see her moved away from the on-again off-again thing with Hank Pym (who sucks). I kind of like that they have this whole relationship that happened off-panel, the details of which are known only to them. It's definitely shorthand for relationship building but it lends credibility to the notion that they'd connect on a level that only they understand.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   Matches is offline   #5
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Oh - one last thought - Remender *really* likes him some stories where parents are separated from their children, no? Here, Black Science, Low, Captain America.....
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   Amentep is offline   #6
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I'm glad they moved Wasp away from Pym as well (and glad they moved Pym on as well).

But the relationship with Havok doesn't work. Arguably one problem both characters have had in the past (IMO) is that they've been in longterm relationships (Havok with Polaris, Wasp with Pym) that had come to define them.

The idea of lumping them into a relationship with no build-up or motivation just seems a waste of having them both be free (and again IMO, Wasp is brought back to life to go straight into a relationship - they might as well left her dead, this isn't going to do anything for her as a character).
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   jafabian is offline   #7
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I'm using this opportunity to drop the book - it has nothing of interest left for me, having squandered all the potential the title had.
ddf
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Unless the next issue really grabs me I'll do the same. I was under the impression this series would be about having the X-Men and Avengers working together after the differences they had in AvX but that was dropped after only a few issues. The Havok and Wasp relationship was very forced and it looks like the best costume in comics with Sunfire is being retired for something along the lines of his AoA look. Wonder Man is an aboslute mess to me. Can't believe this is a guy who's gone toe-to-toe with the Attuma, Hulk, Doctor Doom, Graviton and even Korvac. Right now Archie Andrews could give him a run for his money. And he's dead!

With so many Avengers books on the stands it needs a hook and it doesn't have one for me.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   Hierarch555 is offline   #8
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it looks like the best costume in comics with Sunfire is being retired for something along the lines of his AoA look
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Really, the best costume in comics? Everytime I see Sunfire I cringe because his costume is so gaudy. I love his AOA look but I think they should create something new, maybe something combining the two.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   TJLamb0518 is offline   #9
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Unless the next issue really grabs me I'll do the same. I was under the impression this series would be about having the X-Men and Avengers working together after the differences they had in AvX but that was dropped after only a few issues. The Havok and Wasp relationship was very forced and it looks like the best costume in comics with Sunfire is being retired for something along the lines of his AoA look. Wonder Man is an aboslute mess to me. Can't believe this is a guy who's gone toe-to-toe with the Attuma, Hulk, Doctor Doom, Graviton and even Korvac. Right now Archie Andrews could give him a run for his money. And he's dead!

With so many Avengers books on the stands it needs a hook and it doesn't have one for me.
ddf
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This book has been a problem for me since it's inception. Seriously flawed on so many levels. Cap's idea of promoting mutant equality by forming a team of Avengers with a lot of mutants on it......and then segregating that team away from the "main" team....wow, that's some wacky thinking. And hey....Cap? Maybe you should look at the team you've been a part of since issue #4. The "main" team has HAD plenty of mutants. Heck, 66% of the people YOU drafted the first time the Order Changethed were mutants. And Beast? Justice? Firestar? Wolverine? Namor? Falcon (maybe....is he still a mutant?)? Storm (True, she was an Avenger barely long enough to have the ink on her ID card dry, but...)? Cannonball and Sunspot are currently ON the main tea, Cap! So, aside fom corporate marketing reasons....what makes this Unity Squad different from the "main" team?

Oh, and it's great that Havok is the leader....except Cap is still there being Cap so no one takes Havok seriously. We all know the reason for that (I haven't seen many reviews for HAVOK:THE POLARIS SOLDIER) but it ruins the whole idea when THE Avenger is there "taking orders".

And lastly, this was an opportunity to see Mutant Avengers with ties to the X-Verse fighting foes outside the X-Verse. Oh, look...it's the Red Skull! COOL! BUT, he has....S-Men (really? S-Men? I know What [b]I[/b} think the S stands for, but I doubt it's what Marvel wanted it to be) AND he stole Chuckles Xavier's brain tissue and put it in his head so now he's all kinds of X-Men problem. Oh look, it's a Kang/Immortus story! NEAT.....wait, what are kids of Apocalypse doing here? And there are Horsemen in it? And 3 of them are X-Characters? So....this book is really about having a couple of Avengers interact with an X-Squad fighting X-Villians? And....Kang is kind of the good guy here???? Oy Vey.

Add all this to what others have said about the forced Alex/Jan relationship, the snails pace storytelling and the Wanda/Simon debacle and I cannot find many reasons to read this book anymore.



It's VERY telling that one of the only things this book got RIGHT IMO is the thing that seems to have fanboys and Kitty Pryude aso upset. I LOVED Alex's speech and feel it makes wonderful sense. In a world with Galactus, the Hulk(s), Thanos and Fin Fang Foom.....why are mutants so difficult?
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   superfriend is offline   #10
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i wanted to get to this book eventually. i tried it early on but struggled with it in the first arc. i mean, i seriously dug Remender's X-Force and his Venom and really, anything with ties to that stuff gets my attention but UA is taking a beating with only a handful of people (where i frequent) standing up for it.

i was on the verge about thinking about trying to pick this up again and reading thru it now that it's got a solid mega-arc done but this thread has me wondering if i should give this one a pass for right now.

thing is, Axis seems like it's a Remender showrunner and kinda like i did with Infinity, i binge read Hickman's Avengers to get up to speed and then tackled Infinity. which, incidentally, didn't work out for me. kinda like i've done for Original Sin and Jason Aaron's stuff. now it looks like Remender's stuff is going to play heavily into Axis...hurm.

decisions, decisions.

maybe i'll just watch Walking Dead S4 instead.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   TJLamb0518 is offline   #11
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i wanted to get to this book eventually. i tried it early on but struggled with it in the first arc. i mean, i seriously dug Remender's X-Force and his Venom and really, anything with ties to that stuff gets my attention but UA is taking a beating with only a handful of people (where i frequent) standing up for it.

i was on the verge about thinking about trying to pick this up again and reading thru it now that it's got a solid mega-arc done but this thread has me wondering if i should give this one a pass for right now.

thing is, Axis seems like it's a Remender showrunner and kinda like i did with Infinity, i binge read Hickman's Avengers to get up to speed and then tackled Infinity. which, incidentally, didn't work out for me. kinda like i've done for Original Sin and Jason Aaron's stuff. now it looks like Remender's stuff is going to play heavily into Axis...hurm.

decisions, decisions.

maybe i'll just watch Walking Dead S4 instead.
ddf
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You could watch Season 2, where they're at the Farm and get significantly more action and enjoyment than I've gotten reading Uncanny Avengers. I keep breaking my own rules by continuing to get the book.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   manwithnoname is offline   #12
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Will try this series on M. Unlimited soon. Yikes.
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   superfriend is offline   #13
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and it has Kang in it!

that Roger-Stern-Avengers-Kang stuff completely slays me. and with Remender supposedly being Madbomb with his Cap run...

why doesn't/does this series work True Believers?
 
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Old September 9th, 2014   jafabian is offline   #14
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Really, the best costume in comics? Everytime I see Sunfire I cringe because his costume is so gaudy. I love his AOA look but I think they should create something new, maybe something combining the two.
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Well...one of. I just happen to like it. It makes my top 10 along with Havok's original costume.
 
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Old September 10th, 2014   Matches is offline   #15
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This book has been a problem for me since it's inception. Seriously flawed on so many levels. Cap's idea of promoting mutant equality by forming a team of Avengers with a lot of mutants on it......and then segregating that team away from the "main" team....wow, that's some wacky thinking. And hey....Cap? Maybe you should look at the team you've been a part of since issue #4. The "main" team has HAD plenty of mutants. Heck, 66% of the people YOU drafted the first time the Order Changethed were mutants. And Beast? Justice? Firestar? Wolverine? Namor? Falcon (maybe....is he still a mutant?)? Storm (True, she was an Avenger barely long enough to have the ink on her ID card dry, but...)? Cannonball and Sunspot are currently ON the main tea, Cap! So, aside fom corporate marketing reasons....what makes this Unity Squad different from the "main" team?

Oh, and it's great that Havok is the leader....except Cap is still there being Cap so no one takes Havok seriously. We all know the reason for that (I haven't seen many reviews for HAVOK:THE POLARIS SOLDIER) but it ruins the whole idea when THE Avenger is there "taking orders".
ddf
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A lot of this is accurate, but I'd submit it's a feature, not a bug. The Unity team WAS flawed from its inception. Despite his best intentions, Cap did undermine Havok repeatedly, and no matter how many times he said Havok was in charge, no one really bought it. As soon as things got rough, the "unity" team fractured into smaller groups and bickered amongst one another.

.... and as a result, they failed, most of them got killed, and the entire planet got Ragnarok'd. That was the point - they failed to come together when they needed to, and the world paid for it. Only when they were able to combine their abilities (literally in this case, and perhaps by way of heavy-handed allegory, but still..) were they able to fix the damage.

Remender's made a point about racism or prejudice - sometimes even basically good people, who know and understand the need to rise above it, have difficulty doing so. Mistrust isn't the kind of thing that can be overcome via fiat. Cap thought he could essentially will a cohesive team into existence, and he was wrong. That's the team's arc.

And lastly, this was an opportunity to see Mutant Avengers with ties to the X-Verse fighting foes outside the X-Verse. Oh, look...it's the Red Skull! COOL! BUT, he has....S-Men (really? S-Men? I know What [b]I[/b} think the S stands for, but I doubt it's what Marvel wanted it to be) AND he stole Chuckles Xavier's brain tissue and put it in his head so now he's all kinds of X-Men problem. Oh look, it's a Kang/Immortus story! NEAT.....wait, what are kids of Apocalypse doing here? And there are Horsemen in it? And 3 of them are X-Characters? So....this book is really about having a couple of Avengers interact with an X-Squad fighting X-Villians?
ddf
I always understood Cap's formation of the team to be, at least in part, a response to Cyclops chastising him in AvX because the Avengers hadn't directly addressed the mutant/ human conflict in the past. So I've always seen the team as being less about having X-Men fighting Avengers villains (which you correctly point out has been done over and over), and more about the Avengers getting involved in threats that were relevant to mutants.
 
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Old September 10th, 2014   Matches is offline   #16
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i wanted to get to this book eventually. i tried it early on but struggled with it in the first arc. i mean, i seriously dug Remender's X-Force and his Venom and really, anything with ties to that stuff gets my attention but UA is taking a beating with only a handful of people (where i frequent) standing up for it.
ddf
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UA isn't as good as UXF or Venom. I'd rate it below Frankencastle as well. It's actually a continuation of a lot of the stuff he did in UXF, but it doesn't have any character work as strong as the Psylocke and Fantomex stuff in UXF.

I've enjoyed it though - wouldn't have stuck with it for 23 issues and counting otherwise. UA and Cap are dovetailing together right now and leading into Axis, and they read pretty well as companion pieces to one another.
 
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