The Comic Bloc Forums

Go Back   The Comic Bloc Forums > The Comic Shop: Geoff Johns > Geoff's film, television and video games!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 20th, 2013   Dr_Decipher is offline   #241
Dr_Decipher's Avatar
Dr_Decipher
Member

 
joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 75

Default

You uh...you know goofball neurotic Clark Kent isn't a definitive Superman thing as far as the comics go, right? Geoff Johns may have utilized that in Secret Origin, but that's about it outside the Reeve films. For the most part Clark has always been a nice mild mannered dude who has a strong head on his shoulders. Not a bumbling klutz.
ddf
darthlucifuge View Post
I didn't say anything about Clark Kent having to be a bumbling klutz. (Well, I did say that Christopher Reeve conveyed Clark Kent "perfectly", and he did portray a bumbling klutz so, yes, I guess I did say that by implication. My bad.)

Anyhow, what I meant to say, and should have said, is that Reeve got the unusually self-conscious part right. The bumbling klutz part was probably strategic overkill, and more in line with the wholesome corniness of the 1970's.

As for him being in love with himself, you seem to have a problem with him being really handsome and full of sex appeal...but that's on you.
ddf
darthlucifuge View Post
No I don't, because looks don't necessarily have anything to do with ego, though they often do. So my point isn't about his good looks -- it's about the actor's clearly knowing it and seeming to be primarily concerned about his own gorgeousness throughout much, if not most, of the production.

It is entirely possible to have had a Clark Kent character who was incredibly good-looking but who also didn't think much about it, because his sense of weirdness and overpowered dangerousness would've come to naturally preoccupy his thinking most of the time. And, quite frankly, such a characterization would've been a lot more interesting to watch than a self-adoring Adonis persona who was only truly endearing when he was hugging his mother or angrily fighting in his knock-down, drag-out scenes.
 
Why are the shallowest simpletons always the ones in control?
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   darthlucifuge is offline   #242
darthlucifuge's Avatar
darthlucifuge
I Walk In Eternity

 
joined: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,182

Default

a self-adoring Adonis persona
ddf
Dr_Decipher View Post
Where are you getting this from? Like serious, how did you come to that conclusion?
 
"Intelligence without imagination is useless. Creating is harder than knowing." - Franklin Richards
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   TJLamb0518 is offline   #243
TJLamb0518's Avatar
TJLamb0518
Klinton Spilsbury 4Ever

 
joined: Dec 2002
Location: East Islip, NY
Posts: 25,611

Default

Where are you getting this from? Like serious, how did you come to that conclusion?
ddf
darthlucifuge View Post
Hey! He didn't answer my questions yet. Get in line!
 
Writing Reality Checks with my mouth that my body can't cash....

In new DCU, book drops you. - Yakov Didio
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Dr_Decipher is offline   #244
Dr_Decipher's Avatar
Dr_Decipher
Member

 
joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 75

Default

As was said, meek Clark was an invention. First off, you're stereotyping all farmers as "self-conscious" and awkwardly introspective.
ddf
TJLamb0518 View Post
Not necessarily, I'm not. I'm stereotyping all farmers as being somewhat more isolated and who probably prefer it that way, but not necessarily self-conscious or awkward. They would probably be more the "man of few words" type, on average, more than the average person, though.

The "self-conscious" and "awkward" aspects would be more specific to someone like Clark Kent, though, because he grew up knowing he was seriously, seriously different and was continually counseled by his father to nip that in the bud whenever possible.

So my point is like a Venn diagram, what with the overlapping circles and all that. There is one circle for "Kansas farmer" and another one for "Kryptonian", and the two intersect and overlap in an area that can we can call "Clark Kent". And that zone of overlap should best be characterized by extreme self-consciousness and some kind of awkwardness of manner, however well-composed or introverted it might be. It doesn't have to be the "bumbling klutz" cliche.


Second, he's got the powers of...well...SUPERMAN. Even with Pa Kent constantly telling him to hide his light under a bushel, he knows what he's capable of. That's not a recipe for a lack of confidence.
ddf
TJLamb0518 View Post
No, it's not a recipe for a lack of confidence, but it is a recipe for hiding his light under a bushel, after you yourself have now pointed out. And that, in and of itself, lends itself to a lifetime habit of some kind of awkward self-restraint and anxiety. And, remember, none of that means it has to manifest as the "bumbling klutz", for the reasons I've already given. It can, instead, manifest as someone who avoids prolonged eye contact and/or shows other signs of not being particularly comfortable around strangers, yet who also always desperately wants to be accepted and liked, and even loved. And that would make for quite an interesting "approach-avoidance" dichotomy of characterization that I never saw from Henry Cavill but would love to have seen.

Clark Kent, bless him, had the advantage of playing only the two inventions, Clark and Superman. Notice it's neither of them he'splaying in Superman 2 when Lois learns the secret up until he puts the cape back on. THAT'S the true person.
ddf
TJLamb0518 View Post
I think you meant "Christopher Reeve" at the beginning of the first sentence here, so I'll treat it as such. With that given, if you want a real treat, get ahold of a copy of the Richard Donner director's cut of Superman II -- it has something I've never seen before, and which Reeve captured in such a way that gave me ultimate chills up and down my spine: the moment when Lois Lane inescapably nails Clark Kent on precisely how and why he is Superman. You see Reeve's Kent hem and haw and writhe about right in front of her, frantically trying to figure a way to preserve the ruse, and then suddenly, you can actually see the flip switch inside Kal-El's soul, and his entire face changes, as if a mask is dropping off of it. And then, for the first time, she meets not Clark Kent, and not even Superman, but Kal-El -- the desperate last survivor of an extinct alien race who clearly must do almost anything to survive.

It's very analogous to some kind of Holocaust survivor, or a kind of outlaw fugitive/Jekyll and Hyde thing, and you realize that the whole Kal-El/Clark Kent/Superman thing is really a variety of that paradigm, and none other. A great acting moment that I can't recommend enough.

And finally, Reeve's movies are then. This is now. Evolve or die.
ddf
TJLamb0518 View Post
You're quite shallow in how you view things. Yes, there are certain parts of life that change over the years, but the eternal fundamentals of a circumstance and the characterizations that arise because of those fundamentals, stay constant. And so, because the "scary immigrant" fundamentals of the stranger from Krypton scenario don't change, neither should the basic character of the character.

To miss that point is to miss everything that really matters. And so, in certain cases, such as the world of these "eternal forms", nothing can actually evolve, or else they actually die. In other words, to "evolve" Kal-El's circumstances beyond what they archetypically are, is to actually kill the character itself, and that's much of what was done in this movie, where Cavill's portrayal of the character is concerned.

So, yes, "adapt or die" does come into play here, but not where you think: Cavill's failure is in not adapting himself to the adult personality consequences of having had to grow up as Clark Kent would've been forced to. And that's why he died on screen in so many places and why this film has gotten so blasted by so many critics -- because they just weren't feeling the true and proper heart of the character in Cavill, and it left a soulless black hole of male model-dom where an otherwise much more spiritually uplifting character would've and should've been. Washboard abs and ultimate physical hotness in a Superman character are not nearly enough -- well, not for me, anyways. What must be there is the appropriate soul.
Last edited by Dr_Decipher; June 20th, 2013 at 01:02 PM.
 
Why are the shallowest simpletons always the ones in control?
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   darthlucifuge is offline   #245
darthlucifuge's Avatar
darthlucifuge
I Walk In Eternity

 
joined: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,182

Default

soulless black hole of male model-dom
ddf
Dr_Decipher View Post
You REALLY have a problem with Superman being handsome.
 
"Intelligence without imagination is useless. Creating is harder than knowing." - Franklin Richards
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   TJLamb0518 is offline   #246
TJLamb0518's Avatar
TJLamb0518
Klinton Spilsbury 4Ever

 
joined: Dec 2002
Location: East Islip, NY
Posts: 25,611

Default

You REALLY have a problem with Superman being handsome.
ddf
darthlucifuge View Post
Why does something Brody says during the game show segment in Mallrats come to mind?
 
Writing Reality Checks with my mouth that my body can't cash....

In new DCU, book drops you. - Yakov Didio
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   darthlucifuge is offline   #247
darthlucifuge's Avatar
darthlucifuge
I Walk In Eternity

 
joined: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,182

Default

Why does something Brody says during the game show segment in Mallrats come to mind?
ddf
TJLamb0518 View Post
Aha I got ya.
 
"Intelligence without imagination is useless. Creating is harder than knowing." - Franklin Richards
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Mackaybear is offline   #248
Mackaybear's Avatar
Mackaybear
Polar Bear Horseman

 
joined: Feb 2004
Location: Out on the ice floes
Posts: 13,097

Default




All of this getting personal will cease now. This thread has gone on without it just fine, and you all will not ruin it.

All of you know better than this, I do not care 'who started it' it will cease now or else I'll lock this thread and start handing out infractions,(Or else maul anyone who keeps it going, depending on my mood.)

So stop the personal attacks. This ole Bear will not brook anymore of it
 
I may be old and crippled, but I ain't dead yet.
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   flashsuper is offline   #249
flashsuper's Avatar
flashsuper
My real name is Mike

 
joined: Apr 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,533

Default




All of this getting personal will cease now. This thread has gone on without it just fine, and you all will not ruin it.

All of you know better than this, I do not care 'who started it' it will cease now or else I'll lock this thread and start handing out infractions,(Or else maul anyone who keeps it going, depending on my mood.)

So stop the personal attacks. This ole Bear will not brook anymore of it
ddf
Mackaybear View Post
When will we see an image of Winnie to reflect your mood, pal? Or at least Junior Bear from Warner Bros...
 
I have had a rebirth.
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Mackaybear is offline   #250
Mackaybear's Avatar
Mackaybear
Polar Bear Horseman

 
joined: Feb 2004
Location: Out on the ice floes
Posts: 13,097

Default

When will we see an image of Winnie to reflect your mood, pal? Or at least Junior Bear from Warner Bros...
ddf
flashsuper View Post


I'm no Winnie the Pooh even at my calmest. And I'm nowhere near as dumb as Junior Bear was.

And before you ask, I'm nowhere close to being a Teddy bear either.
 
I may be old and crippled, but I ain't dead yet.
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   WeirdoLegionnaire is offline   #251
WeirdoLegionnaire's Avatar
WeirdoLegionnaire
Yeah, that's the ticket!

 
joined: Jan 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,272

Default

Holy cow.

To steer the topic back on track - I feel like this is a movie that people will be kinder to over time. Batman Begins got harsh reviews at first - people said it was joyless and dark and grim, but over time it's become a very well-respected flick.
 
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #252
Mr. Wrong's Avatar
Mr. Wrong
Supreme Geoffan

 
joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,738

Default


I'm no Winnie the Pooh even at my calmest. And I'm nowhere near as dumb as Junior Bear was.

And before you ask, I'm nowhere close to being a Teddy bear either.
ddf
Mackaybear View Post
This is how I picture you:



Trying to keep the kids and the old farts in their proper place.
 
"HEY, KENT! YOU'VE GOT YOUR BIB ON BACKWARDS!"
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Mackaybear is offline   #253
Mackaybear's Avatar
Mackaybear
Polar Bear Horseman

 
joined: Feb 2004
Location: Out on the ice floes
Posts: 13,097

Default

We will keep this thread open for now. But anymore crap and I'll infract and lock it.

It's mostly been a great discussion but when posters get personal we don't tolerate it.
 
I may be old and crippled, but I ain't dead yet.
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Scott Mateo is offline   #254
Scott Mateo's Avatar
Scott Mateo
Answer Man's Pal

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: St. Petersburg/Tampa FL
Posts: 8,805

Default

The Most Important Scenes from Man of Steel (As I Remember Them)

Funny stuff!
 
"You're NOT getting a signal watch!" - Bob Rozakis
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #255
Mr. Wrong's Avatar
Mr. Wrong
Supreme Geoffan

 
joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,738

Default

Oh man, that was very funny. Thanks for the link!
 
"HEY, KENT! YOU'VE GOT YOUR BIB ON BACKWARDS!"
Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013   Terry Sloane is offline   #256
Terry Sloane's Avatar
Terry Sloane
Master Geoffan

 
joined: Jul 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,938

Default

I am going to see it again this weekend or next.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bring Back the Code BART ALLEN Comic Announcements, Discussions, News and Rumors 67 November 9th, 2011 02:16 PM
Weekly Review Power Rankings 11/14/07 Ye Olde Iowa Comic Announcements, Discussions, News and Rumors 2 November 20th, 2007 11:25 AM
Weekly Review Power Rankings 11/07/07 Ye Olde Iowa Comic Announcements, Discussions, News and Rumors 6 November 13th, 2007 12:25 PM
DC has another shock in store for Flash Fans, and no, it's not good. Vinny Piccolo DC Comics 27 July 3rd, 2007 10:20 AM
Rann - Thanagar War Special / Ion prequel review by Paul King *SPOILERS* Paul_King Green Lantern 21 February 11th, 2006 07:42 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2000-2008 Comic Bloc All characters and titles are © by their respective owners.