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Old November 15th, 2006   Keith Dallas is offline   #113
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I wonder, would there be a new creative team on Flash now if everyone, at the outset, had just said their piece and then fallen silent, reading on in the hopes of a change rather than unleashing a tital wave of vitrol?
ddf
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The "official line" is that the creative team was changed due to "editorial differences," NOT fan outcry.


Or what about the whole Liefield incident? The sheer outpouring of vemon surounding his two issue stint seems to have ensured he won't work on Titans for a good long while.
ddf
Ummm, no. That's not the reason. Liefeld's own comments about his two-part assignment assured his future (or lack thereof) at DC.

Again, if you TRULY think that messageboard comments influence editorial decisions in any meaningful way, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

There is no doubt that fan comments and complaints can influence a story here and there (e.g. the re-introduction of a "forgotten" character), but if we're talking about REVENUE altering decisions (i.e. the hiring or firing of a writer or artist), then no, The Powers That Be do NOT base their decisions on messageboard praise or outcry because they rightfully understand that messageboard praise or outcry does NOT necessarily reflect the overall readership. If it did, Manhunter and any book written by Dan Slott would best-sellers.
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #114
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Sweet zombie jesus... I can't believe I just read all of this thread. Unfortunatly, it's rather late at night and it all pretty much just went in one ear and out the other, leaving me only with confusion as to what all the fuss is about (the forums here are, by and large, very civil when it comes to people vocalising their disastisfaction) and the strange urge to start singing kumbaya.

But anyway, for what it's worth, the OP may be tired of it, but I'm not. In fact, I think it's healthy for the future of the DC franchise that people are so emotionally invested in characters and in the universe as a whole that they get upset and complain about it when something happens that they don't like. Repeatedly. In 17 page-long threads. That are the 7th time the topic has been resurrected. This month.

Simply put: it's a way to vent, to share both your love and your frustration in a forum where people feel similarly to you and where there is a slight chance that someone with the power to do something about your wants will heed your words. You talk, you complain, you shake your first in anger a bit at the gods and, at the least, feel better for that. Sometimes, you can even get lucky. I wonder, would there be a new creative team on Flash now if everyone, at the outset, had just said their piece and then fallen silent, reading on in the hopes of a change rather than unleashing a tital wave of vitrol? Sales would have flagged and change come eventually, I'm sure, as fans lost hope and stopped buying, but I doubt it would have come as quickly as it did. Or what about the whole Liefield incident? The sheer outpouring of vemon surounding his two issue stint seems to have ensured he won't work on Titans for a good long while.

This brings me to the problem with the 'wait and see and it will all be better' mentality when it comes to comics. Comics are ongoing. They're serial, constantly evolving and changing pieces of media. Creative teams and editorial mandates change, not nessesarily on a whim, but quite frequently, and unexpected plot-twists abound. Yes, some of the things being complained about may eventually be 'fixed', but there is no gaurentee if they will be, let alone be fixed in what the complainers would consider to be a reasonable amount of time. Will Beast Boy come back? Probably. But it's looking increasingly likely that it won't be for a good while. Will Batgirl stop being evil? Likely as well, give than I can't think of a fan who thinks that what happened was a good idea, but the timeframe for her redemption is uncertain (and that's not actually the issue at hand, that being that she should never have gone evil in the first place). Being loud and proud about constantly ensures that the character isn't forgotten entirely while they're lost in comic-book-limbo, or that one day some writer might remember the outpouring of negativity over a decision and set out to right a wrong.

And as for the 'drop it if you don't like it'... who, honestly, wants to have to choose between reading a take on a character you disagree with and abandoning that character and everything associated with it all together? You don't want the title to fail, because you don't know if it'll get a new team, get rebooted or simply just stop all together, but you need some way to express your disatisfaction.

I say complain. I say whine and moan to your heart's content if that is the way you feel.
ddf
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1) You say you read the entire thread, but equate it to people saying Stop Complaining. No one is. What people are saying is Don't Be Such a Flame Baiting Troll When You Complain.

2) The incredible hubris exhibited when thinking internet whining got things accomplished astonishes me. That said, look for my new sites [www,IWantMyHairBack.com and www,CanIPleaseHaveATorridAffairWithJessicaAlba.net . Hey....if this works, I'll back you 1,000,000%.

3)

And as for the 'drop it if you don't like it'... who, honestly, wants to have to choose between reading a take on a character you disagree with and abandoning that character and everything associated with it all together? You don't want the title to fail, because you don't know if it'll get a new team, get rebooted or simply just stop all together, but you need some way to express your disatisfaction.
ddf
You're kidding, right? "Oh, woe is me....I'm forced to read a bad comic because someday someone might do it the way I want it?". Please. IF you don;t like it and continue to buy it despite that....you deserve what you get. It's like hating chocolate ice cream yet buying it all the time and eating it because you hope someday they'll make vanilla. There are HUNDREDS of comic books out there. Supporting one you don't like sends the wrong message. If you don;t like it, HOPE it gets cancelled, THEN petition for a re-launch in a form more to your liking. But if you're helping a bad series succeed, don;t cry foul to the rest of us.
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   Ugh is offline   #115
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ok, i have no idea how long this thread will last, but i feal it deserves a shot.

Recently there has been a change in the titans team. they are no longer Young Justice V.2, the are no longer Perez and Wolfman's titans V.2, They are trully Geoff Johns Teen Titans.
Yes, i understand all of the fans complaints that Conner got screwed by getting killed off, yes he had just become a grear character for the first time since his birth. but consider how he died. a hero, consider what he left behind, a lover who had lost so much already. a friend who had lost his family, friends and more.
Conners death created so much potential for story line that really, its amazing.
and yes, i knoiw some are mad that Geoff has a new super child in action comics, but will he last? will he be around in 10 years? who knows. he wont even be able to be superboy for another 5 comic years if he's lucky.
but really, the reason conner ided is because of title issues. DC had a dispute where they might have lost the use of Superboy as a character. that is why hes gone, please just let it go. PLEASE!

Now we move on to Bart. now this is the one argument i can agree with...not much else to say. im angrey as well, but there might still be hope. so please, Wait and See.

Gar, well...hes gone. yeah, hes off to the Doom Patrol, and yes they have no title. Yes, he's in limbo, but he'll be back, just wait, DC will not let him go. Now i also understand how mad fans are that all the character development he had was lost when he joined the titans. yeah, that sucks. but really, he'll be back. it may take time, but Gar is part of the titans. he'll be back.

now i am not limiting this to the titans, im also saying that all the complaints about the flash, Cassandra Cain, Judd Winick and All-Star batman and robin, Jim Lee, all of it needs to stop.
its getting out of hand. yes we all get it you hate the current direction that DC is taking with some characters and titles, well just dont read them. Dont buy Dc, that will show them something. and also keep in mind, there are various contributers to DC on these Boards, they will tell DC your unhappy, so please, just let it die.
when we have about 3 threads all dedicated to Gar of Conner coming back its sad.
Please, just enjoy the comics you want, dont buy those you hate, and have fun, comics are an escape, a fictional universe for fun stories, so please remember that, and enjoy.
thanks for the time.
ddf
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YES FINALLY! someone who agrees with me! hooray!
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   fallentaco is offline   #116
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1) You say you read the entire thread, but equate it to people saying Stop Complaining. No one is. What people are saying is Don't Be Such a Flame Baiting Troll When You Complain.

2) The incredible hubris exhibited when thinking internet whining got things accomplished astonishes me. That said, look for my new sites [www,IWantMyHairBack.com and www,CanIPleaseHaveATorridAffairWithJessicaAlba.net . Hey....if this works, I'll back you 1,000,000%.

3)You're kidding, right? "Oh, woe is me....I'm forced to read a bad comic because someday someone might do it the way I want it?". Please. IF you don;t like it and continue to buy it despite that....you deserve what you get. It's like hating chocolate ice cream yet buying it all the time and eating it because you hope someday they'll make vanilla. There are HUNDREDS of comic books out there. Supporting one you don't like sends the wrong message. If you don;t like it, HOPE it gets cancelled, THEN petition for a re-launch in a form more to your liking. But if you're helping a bad series succeed, don;t cry foul to the rest of us.
ddf
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sign me up for that

oh, and as usal great points TJ
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   fallentaco is offline   #117
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YES FINALLY! someone who agrees with me! hooray!
ddf
Ugh View Post
you were one of the people that inspired me to create this thread.
when you said you were considering dropping a title do to the bashing threads, it hit me.

but please, lets try and keep it civil in this thread, that goes for everyone.
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   Matches is offline   #118
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Okay - here are my thoughts in a nutshell (perhaps a particularly long-winded nutshell, but here goes). If this gets me warned, so be it - but it's how I feel.

I love comics. I love the artform. I think it has tremendous potential, and when that potential is realized and a comic really clicks on all levels - there's nothing else like it. Comics entertained me through my childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, and now as a married-with-children thirtysomething, and I believe they'll entertain me until the day I die.

I also love intelligent discussion of comics. It adds to the reading experience. It helps talk up our hobby. It helps show that we're NOT all dateless losers. This forum is gifted with a large number of posters who are very bright, articulate, thoughtful, witty, and all the other traits that lead to good discussion, intelligent critique, or goofy banter. All of those things are fun, and all of those things are available in plentiful supply on this board.

On the other side of the fence, we have the constant, incessant, whiny negativity of a few loud posters. They exist to whine, seemingly. They fill threads with inane little rants about how horrible their comics are. Many of the posts give the impression that the author thinks of these fictional characters as real people, but thinks of the people who create them as ciphers. Frankly, lately their voices have been louder than usual. The Flash forum has been a truly ugly place for the past several months, all because someone had the audacity to publish a comic book certain people did not like. This type of bologna adds nothing to the forum. It's not intelligent. It's not reasoned. It's not effecting change. It's not constructive. It's just whining. It's a drain on the community.

This thread has now gone on for over 100 posts, and several times people have tried to clarify that complaints about this behavior are not intended to squelch all negative commentary. Constant gladhanding and sucking up is not intelligent either, and "critique" involves the positive and the negative. Those who still interpret the OP's 1st post or any after that as trying to cut off all negative comments are demonstrating very clearly that they don't recognize the difference between intelligent and unintelligent, or between polite and rude, discourse.

For those of you who engage in this behavior - I'm sorry. I'm sorry that this is your life. I'm sorry that the best way you can think of to fill your days on this Earth is obsessing over the "lives" of fictional characters. I'm sorry that you lack the social skills to see that saying the same thing over and over again makes you less rather than more convincing, and that you're not influencing anyone in a positive way. I hope things get better for you.

There's been some talk elsewhere in the last few days about how to deal with you, how to change your behavior. I speak for no one but myself when I say that I think that's a lost cause. I cannot affect your behavior. I'm not a mod here. I don't make the rules, and I do not decide who stays and goes. (And frankly I wouldn't want to.) The only person I can control is me.

For that reason, I'm going to make a promise, and I will stick to it. I hope others will join me and do the same, but if not that's okay. Those of you who have nothing to add but bitterness and bile, who insist on ranting and raving about the minutia of comics beyond all reason, who can't get through a two-sentence post without saying something that would get you punched in the jaw in person - as far as I'm concerned, you're not here. I won't reply to you. I won't acknowledge you. I won't read your posts. I won't engage you in any way. If you want to continue reinforcing every single negative stereotype about comic fans that exists, I can't stop you. But I don't have to be part of it, either. If that means I post here less, so be it. That may be a drop in the bucket in a community of 11,000+, but it's what I can do.

And truthfully, no one is really listening to you anyway. Even the people who actually read the 3,425th post about how angry you are that Ratcatcher died aren't paying attention. I'm just making it more formal.
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   bgztl is offline   #119
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The anonymity of the internet has given more false courage to people than the entire Budweiser product line.
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This may be one of the funniest and truest things I have ever read.
 
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Old November 15th, 2006   fallentaco is offline   #120
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For that reason, I'm going to make a promise, and I will stick to it. I hope others will join me and do the same, but if not that's okay. Those of you who have nothing to add but bitterness and bile, who insist on ranting and raving about the minutia of comics beyond all reason, who can't get through a two-sentence post without saying something that would get you punched in the jaw in person - as far as I'm concerned, you're not here. I won't reply to you. I won't acknowledge you. I won't read your posts. I won't engage you in any way. If you want to continue reinforcing every single negative stereotype about comic fans that exists, I can't stop you. But I don't have to be part of it, either. If that means I post here less, so be it. That may be a drop in the bucket in a community of 11,000+, but it's what I can do.

And truthfully, no one is really listening to you anyway. Even the people who actually read the 3,425th post about how angry you are that Ratcatcher died aren't paying attention. I'm just making it more formal.
ddf
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Im with you.
Plane and simple i fully agree, there is no point in arguing with these posters who do nothing but whine. There is no hope of changing their minds, so why bother. If they want a civil discussion, ill talk, if they wont to bash or complain, i wont respond. I dont need to waste the time.

Now im going to post i response to what i said above, defending it because i know someone will say it. Yes, i am complaining right now. Yes you dont have to agree with it, read it, acknoledge it, and you know what? I can live with that. I felt this thread needed to exist, i had heard to much of people complaining about the issue of others complaining and decided to post those complaints. Am i a hippacrite? Sure, but i am not alone, and that is what sets me apart from others. I am not alone in thinking about these issues. i know the mods have been talking about it as have fellow posters. It needs to stop.

As i posted before, people hear i read comics and they think i am an immature dateless dork, well i may not have had a date in 2 years, i may be immature at times, and yeah, sure im a dork. But im also a fan, and an adult, as are numerous others on these and other boards. But you wouldnt know it baised on a majority of posts these past few months. we are adults, it's time we acted like it and were civil.
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   Ohoni is offline   #121
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But it's not ONE person. It's one person who spoke out among many.
ddf
How can you presume to speak for anyone other than yourself. You can't claim to know what other people are thinking.

Just wait a few years and if there are enough people who agree with you, the character will return. Heck, most people HATED Jason Todd and he's back.....so I got to think one day some of these characters that died around IC will be back.
ddf
I have NO doubt that Conner and Bart will return one day, but I'd just rather not wait the industry-typical 5, 10, or 20+ years for that to happen in due course. Anything I can do to accelerate their return, I will.

I want people to arguee! i want them to complain, it's a comic fans right, but all im asking is to say what you like about them as well.
for every negative thread about the flash, can we have a good one?
ddf
That's been tried. The threads about people hating the book just have more participants, and they are more vocal about it, because more people hate the book, and care more about it. Asking for 50/50 is unreasonable when the audience is not split 50/50.

The "official line" is that the creative team was changed due to "editorial differences," NOT fan outcry.
ddf
It was actually a weather baloon. Or swamp gas. Probably swamp gas.
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   PrincessCrujectra is offline   #122
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I think that there's a difference between constructive criticism and ranting. If there is a topic going on about a particular title, or perhaps about a particular issue, then I think it's reasonable to have posters be able to express their views about it, whether it be positive or negative, provided it's done in a reasonable manner, and that personal attacks are left out of it.

However, I know that there are some who feel so strongly about something that they just feel the need to complain about it whenever and wherever they can. You can start a topic about the nice weather in California, and this person will jump right in and say that the current run of Titans is total crap, blah, blah, blah.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and should be allowed to express their opinion in a forum such as this. However, there are times when doing so isn't necessarily appropriate. Ignoring the bad doesn't make it better, but ramming your opinion down someone's throat will not accomplish anything either.

Unfortunately, from time to time, we can all probably be accused of doing this. All we can do is try harder
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   fallentaco is offline   #123
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How can you presume to speak for anyone other than yourself. You can't claim to know what other people are thinking.
ddf
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here's the difference, i am not the only one, look at the posts, i am not alone.

I have NO doubt that Conner and Bart will return one day, but I'd just rather not wait the industry-typical 5, 10, or 20+ years for that to happen in due course. Anything I can do to accelerate their return, I will.
ddf
Ohoni View Post
the sad thing is you think there is something you can do...

That's been tried. The threads about people hating the book just have more participants, and they are more vocal about it, because more people hate the book, and care more about it. Asking for 50/50 is unreasonable when the audience is not split 50/50.
ddf
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i would say your right. its 60/40, 60 favoring the new flash title. the sales are there, but you would not know people like it because all they get in response is "what? how can you like that?!?!?!?" so they dont post that they like it.

It was actually a weather baloon. Or swamp gas. Probably swamp gas.
ddf
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now this is jusy uncalled for! it was editorial differences, and if you think otherwise fine! but dont think your opinion, or any other "fan" if you can call yourself that since you hate the title, changed DC's mind!
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   troialover04 is offline   #124
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i have to admit that some of the complaining on here recently i actually find quite jarring - of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i would never try to stop anyone from expressing how they feel - but i swear some people cant wait to get their comics JUST to hate on everything they dont like about it/them - the negativity on the boards lately has been worse than its been in the 2 years or so ive been on here -
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #125
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How can you presume to speak for anyone other than yourself. You can't claim to know what other people are thinking.
ddf
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The irony aside (that being you've founded your posting career speaking for the masses and have admitted as much), ONE person created the thread. And others have chimed in expressing support for the idea (not all, OTHERS. So, please keep your spin-doctoring to a minimum). Additionally, as others have pointed out on this thread, this topic rears it's head multiple times by different authors, further lending credence to my proposition that his is not a lone opinion.


FURTHERMORE, the notice magicspoon has created and pinned threads named:

Heads up if you like comics, but hate change

Just a Reminder: Watch it.

and the one Capt. Dallas created in the Flash forum named

The Crusades : Important Announcement - Please Read

ALL of these threads deal, in varying degrees) with this VERY premise. Now, let me ask you (and, yes, I'm actually going to stupidly expect an honest, non-agenda driven response)....why would two mods create THREE threads/posts/admonishments/warnings dealing with this topic if ONE person who created a thread months later about it is the lone believer?


EVEN FURTHERMORE, it isn't one person who believes it because, the inability to comport oneself with any sort of decorum despite multiple mod chidings caused at least one person that I'm aware of to be banned from the Flash forum (an ability most of us weren't even aware the mods HAD). Now, why would they do THAT if it was a minority opinion?

I have NO doubt that Conner and Bart will return one day, but I'd just rather not wait the industry-typical 5, 10, or 20+ years for that to happen in due course. Anything I can do to accelerate their return, I will.
ddf
a) Bart, to the best of my knowledge, never left. He's even got his own book again.

b) You're not helping anything. Let me tell you a little tale. I grew up reading DC. Green Lantern was one of my favorite heroes. LOVED the period when Grell was drawing it. I loved the whole concept of it. Then Emerald Twilight happened and, while I agree it was not handled as well as it should have been (the issue prior he's filled with resolve to move on from the Coast City tragedy, the next he's diving off the Emerald Deep End), life moved on. Now, I fully admit I expected it to be a stunt like the then recent Death of Superman and KnightsQuest (which most readers knew were temporary). But, this one didn;t appear to be. No real resolution happening. So....I adjusted to the new status quo but still kept an eye out for when Hal would return (I would've put cash money the Emerald Knights arc would've benn it at the time). Then I started reading message boards. At that time it was the dCMB's. And reading the GL threads and seeing the ....way other Hal fans (not all of them, not most of them....just a few very, very vocal ones) would go about ...let's say keeping Hal's memory alive. Now, after years of reading that and watchin DC start reviving the dead willy-nilly (no, Willy-Nilly was not a character but a way of doing things) that by the time they DID announce Hal was coming back, I was utterly turned off to and opposed to the idea. Why? Because those vocal fans, in their efforts to keep the character in people's minds, did so in such a way they soured me to the character. I now associated a character I grew up loving (hey, him, Iron Man, Nova and Mon-El were my FAVORITES!) with rampant fanboy whining and petty behaviors.

Is that really what you want to accomplish?


That's been tried. The threads about people hating the book just have more participants, and they are more vocal about it, because more people hate the book, and care more about it. Asking for 50/50 is unreasonable when the audience is not split 50/50.
ddf
Really? Again, proof. You're citing ratios. Now supply numbers to back them up.


It was actually a weather baloon. Or swamp gas. Probably swamp gas.
ddf
I thought you were the only cause of toxic emissions around here....
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   TJLamb0518 is offline   #126
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i have to admit that some of the complaining on here recently i actually find quite jarring - of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i would never try to stop anyone from expressing how they feel - but i swear some people cant wait to get their comics JUST to hate on everything they dont like about it/them - the negativity on the boards lately has been worse than its been in the 2 years or so ive been on here -
ddf
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You should have been here before the two years you've been here. When Geoff was writing just JSA and Flash and Titans was just starting up....the place was a friggin' Utopia of love and harmony. It really WAS the best board on the internet.
 
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Old November 16th, 2006   napoleandog is offline   #127
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I've always hated the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument. TJ used the ice cream analogy. That analagy actually makes a little sense. But I've got one that I've used as well.

When I (or anyone) complains about the direction of a book, I hate to hear, "if you don't like it, don't buy it." I may like the characters, but I don't like the direction the book is taking. Or, I may not like certain characters, but know that in a rich universe like the Titansverse, the characters that I do like may someday return (yea Jericho!). But to totally abandon something that I've enjoyed for many years and has been a large part of my life is a little crazy. I was with the book before the current writer and I'll be with the book long after the current writer leaves. Writers come and go, fans shouldn't.

Which finally brings me to my analogy. This "if you don't like the book, don't buy it" mentality reminds me of the people that say, "The United States--love it or leave it!" I don't like the currection direction our government has taken, so should I just leave the country until I do like the direction our government is taking? I love this country and I love it's people, why should I leave because of the government? why can't I just express my displeasure with the administration? I love the DC Universe and the Titansverse in particular. Instead of leaving it, can't I express my displeasure?

Just my take on it.

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Old November 16th, 2006   Ohoni is offline   #128
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here's the difference, i am not the only one, look at the posts, i am not alone.
ddf
Neither am I when I claim to speak for more than just myself, and yet still the claim is made, so either it applies to both of us, or neither of us.

the sad thing is you think there is something you can do...
ddf
It's not much, certainly, but it's worth a shot.

i would say your right. its 60/40, 60 favoring the new flash title.
ddf
The post count does not back that up. We're talking about response here, the majority of respondants re: the Flash have been negative about the state of the title. Whether that response is indicative of the views of those who chose not to respond is debatable, but not the responses themselves.

the sales are there, but you would not know people like it because all they get in response is "what? how can you like that?!?!?!?" so they dont post that they like it.
ddf
Oh, I'm sure that is true. By coincidence, I also have a bridge to sell you. In my own experience I've found that negative criticism is likely to produce MORE praise for a book than it would otherwise recieve, as people who enjoy the book feel compelled to defend their choice against criticism.

now this is jusy uncalled for! it was editorial differences, and if you think otherwise fine! but dont think your opinion, or any other "fan" if you can call yourself that since you hate the title, changed DC's mind!
ddf
For the record, I'm sure that it was editorial differences, primarilly of course that DC wanted the Flash franchise to be good.

...why would two mods create THREE threads/posts/admonishments/warnings dealing with this topic if ONE person who created a thread months later about it is the lone believer?
ddf
Presumably because they all believe that, but how could one presume to know? After all, many people have expressed dislike for certain changes in the DCU such as Superboy dying or Bart being warped beyond recognition, but I have been chastised in the past for implying that anyone other than myself feels this way, despite the dozens of other people who have posted such views.

EVEN FURTHERMORE, it isn't one person who believes it because, the inability to comport oneself with any sort of decorum despite multiple mod chidings caused at least one person that I'm aware of to be banned from the Flash forum (an ability most of us weren't even aware the mods HAD). Now, why would they do THAT if it was a minority opinion?
ddf
I'm sure that whatever reason this person was banned from the Flash forums, it had little to do with decorum and much more to do with topic.

Then Emerald Twilight happened and, while I agree it was not handled as well as it should have been (the issue prior he's filled with resolve to move on from the Coast City tragedy, the next he's diving off the Emerald Deep End), life moved on. Now, I fully admit I expected it to be a stunt like the then recent Death of Superman and KnightsQuest (which most readers knew were temporary). But, this one didn;t appear to be. No real resolution happening. So....I adjusted to the new status quo but still kept an eye out for when Hal would return (I would've put cash money the Emerald Knights arc would've benn it at the time).
ddf
Yeah, but the difference is that the Kyle period was a good one. Whether you liked Hal or not, there was something good to read instead. We don't have that here in many cases.

Really? Again, proof. You're citing ratios. Now supply numbers to back them up.
ddf
The threads are there, read them yourself. I recomend the Flash board. Go onto a thread with a positive title like "The new Flash is great!" or something, and count the unique positive respondants. Then go onto a more negative thread like, well, pretty much any thread discussing the book as a whole, and count the number of negative respondants. If the numbers do not support my position on this, feel free to let me know.

You should have been here before the two years you've been here. When Geoff was writing just JSA and Flash and Titans was just starting up....the place was a friggin' Utopia of love and harmony. It really WAS the best board on the internet.
ddf
Coincidentally enough, those were some really great books at the time. I bought and enjoyed all of them. Oh, how the times they are a'chang'in.
 
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