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Old October 12th, 2005   Infernorhythm is offline   #1
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Default Wait, Mockingbird Can't Be...[SPOILERS]

Okay, first let me say this. I loved Villains United. I haven't been able to pick it up (the good comic book store I went to closed after Countdown came out, and the only other one is a load of crap), but I have a friend in California that has given me detailed summaries of every issue, as well as a few scans to keep me up to date with the action. That is why I have to say, as much as I loved VU #6, it makes no sense.

Oh don't get me wrong, I loved it. Pariah was in it (and I'm sure it's not the end of him, it can't be), and Deathstroke beat Deadshot (I love DS, and Gail can write him, although I don't think there was an explaination for his membership. I'm sure he was paid, but it was never said). Gail should revive Deathstroke's series. It would be a hit. This issue ended in such a finale that it was truly wonderful. Yet the ending made less sense then Dark Knight Strikes Again.

Mockingbird can't be Luthor(who is most likely the Black Mask seen in the Batman books, but that's an arguement I've already made). I consider myself average in the deduction department, but my friends views me as pretty bright, and my friend in California is no slouch either. The hints and clues dropped in VU and the stories preceeding the Crisis (starting with Batman: Hush) point with Mockingbird being Hush. The first hints were in Batman: Hush itself. We were introduced to a mysterious figure with knowledge on nearly all superheroes and villains, possessing legendary skills of manipulation. Then we jump ahead three years, to VU. We have Mockingbird who also possesses huge knowledge of the heroes and villains. S/he is shown as a wonderful manipulator, taking advantage of all his pawns' prized ones. He is never explicitely referenced outside of the Six, and seems to be even more detatched from the world then most manipulators. Then we have the fact that Promotheus, Hush's number one disiple, and not exactly the greatest team player, was running with the Society, when it's obvious he doesn't need the help they offer to say, Captain Nazi. Then we have the fact that Hush, in his bandages, appears bald, just like Mockingbird appears to be. Then there is the most obvious hint:

Hush little baby, don't say a word. Mama's going to buy you a Mockingbird.

As much as I loved the series, the evidence points away from the answer given. I'm so confused...

Anyway, at least Black Adam and Deathstroke lived.

-Nick
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Calcite is offline   #2
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Several counterpoints.

First off, on the Hush scene, Scarecrow and to a degree Riddler came up with the rhyme for Hush. They, and therefore Hush, didn't have a lot to do with Crisis. It's an accidental red herring.

Second, Hush in bandages does indeed appear bald; however, we don't see any of the trailing bandage ends in the various images of Mockingbird scattered about.

Third, Hush is only aware of the various villains and whatnot due to the Riddler's influence. That was part of Riddler's rise to Tier One villainry. Hush has his own motives, which are intensely personal in scope. Read any of Lieberman's stuff in Gotham Knights to have a better idea of Hush.

Finally, of COURSE Deathstroke and Black Adam are going to live through VU. Black Adam is a manifestation of six Egyptian gods, and Deathstroke is such a badass! A sword AND a gun? You really don't want any of this!!
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Infernorhythm is offline   #3
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Several counterpoints.

First off, on the Hush scene, Scarecrow and to a degree Riddler came up with the rhyme for Hush. They, and therefore Hush, didn't have a lot to do with Crisis. It's an accidental red herring.

Second, Hush in bandages does indeed appear bald; however, we don't see any of the trailing bandage ends in the various images of Mockingbird scattered about.

Third, Hush is only aware of the various villains and whatnot due to the Riddler's influence. That was part of Riddler's rise to Tier One villainry. Hush has his own motives, which are intensely personal in scope. Read any of Lieberman's stuff in Gotham Knights to have a better idea of Hush.

Finally, of COURSE Deathstroke and Black Adam are going to live through VU. Black Adam is a manifestation of six Egyptian gods, and Deathstroke is such a badass! A sword AND a gun? You really don't want any of this!!
ddf
Calcite
Umm, have you read Lieberman? His Hush is as close to the original Hush as I am to Janet Jackson. For the record, I'm a nonfamous, white teenager, to help with that analogy. Yes, I am aware that Riddler and Scarecrow had their hand in the whole mess, but Hush certainly has his own motives, and he's certainly been hinted at being Mockingbird.
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Professor Why is offline   #4
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Umm, have you read Lieberman? His Hush is as close to the original Hush as I am to Janet Jackson. For the record, I'm a nonfamous, white teenager, to help with that analogy. Yes, I am aware that Riddler and Scarecrow had their hand in the whole mess, but Hush certainly has his own motives, and he's certainly been hinted at being Mockingbird.
ddf
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Well, he may have been hinted at being Mockingbird, but VU#6 laid it out on the table exactly WHO Mockingbird is... I'm sure the explanation of "the twins", as I guess I'll call 'em for now, will be coming up in a later issue of IC...
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   hoyatables is offline   #5
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Yeah, but here's the thing--the Hush storyline was pre-IC, even pre-IC planning, so the use of the name "hush" didn't foreshadow any future mockingbird.

Now, the counterargument would be, "but Gail chose mockingbird to complete the rhyme." A good point, but in the original Secret Six series, the guy behind the scenes was called Mockingbird, too. So the choice of name is independent of Hush.

That said, could Gail have chosen to revive the Secret Six with the names/rhyme in mind? Sure could have.
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Calcite is offline   #6
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Just keep in mind that some hints are intentional, and some are NOT. That's what red herrings are all about -- having us chase down tunnels to identify clues that don't really apply.

Lieberman's Hush did get away from the original Hush, but frankly, we didn't really get to know the original Hush too well. What we had seen was Hush at the height of his personal power, and with two years of planning and follow-up going for him. Right now we're getting to see Hush as a normal villain, trying to work his way up again with some fairly elaborate plans, some that are duds, some that are not. I've no doubt that we haven't seen the philosophical quotes that made Hush so interesting because the character is not feeling as in-control of the situation as he once did. As it turns out, most of his control was a gift from the Riddler.
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   $croogeMcDuck is offline   #7
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Uh, I think we're missing that Mockingbird isn't just Luthor... it's heavily implied that he's EARTH 2 LUTHOR... which is far more scary than Hush.
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Bog is offline   #8
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Earth 2 Luthor? I'm seriously confused, dude. Wouldn't he be all...dead and stuff?
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Professor Why is offline   #9
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Uh, I think we're missing that Mockingbird isn't just Luthor... it's heavily implied that he's EARTH 2 LUTHOR... which is far more scary than Hush.
ddf
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I didn't read it that way, to be honest with you... when I read the business-suit Luthor's chat with Pariah, I came away with the conclusion that HE was the imposter (or alternate-Earth Luthor, if you will), and the battle-suit Luthor was the one from the current DCU's Earth...
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   HushedRuin is offline   #10
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Alright. Which Luthor said the line that started this whole thing? "There will be a crisis."
 
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Old October 12th, 2005   Professor Why is offline   #11
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Alright. Which Luthor said the line that started this whole thing? "There will be a crisis."
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seemed to be President (and battle-suit) Luthor, which only adds to the confusion of things...
 
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Old October 13th, 2005   $croogeMcDuck is offline   #12
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See, I think president and battle suit luthor are one and the same, Earth 2 Luthor.

He's the Super Criminal, not the evil buisnessman luthor we all know.
 
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Old October 13th, 2005   Cousin Cory Springhorn is offline   #13
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Earth-2 Luthor was probably the least bright of any Luthor we've ever seen, and least likely to pull off being able to survive the removal of his own universe from the timeline. Plus, he was never bald. If the second Luthor (the one running the Society) is any Luthor we've seen before (and I think it is), my money is on the Earth-1 Luthor, who, incidentally, orchestrated a "Society"-like gathering of villains during COIE.

When the eventual showdown between the two Luthors comes, as we know it must, I'll be rooting for President Lex to beat down the Hero of Lexor. Sure, our Lex is a crummy guy, handed his infant daughter over to Brainiac, had Lana Lang beaten up, destroyed Metropolis, had an affair and illegitimate son with Perry White's wife, bought the Daily Planet and fired Clark, and many other lousy things, but the one thing about Earth-1 Lex that we must never forget... NEVER... is that one time, when no one was looking, he took 40 cakes. He took 40 cakes! That's as many as four tens! And that's terrible.
 
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Old October 13th, 2005   Professor Why is offline   #14
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See, I think president and battle suit luthor are one and the same, Earth 2 Luthor.

He's the Super Criminal, not the evil buisnessman luthor we all know.
ddf
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might go along with that idea, except that E-2 Lex wasn't bald and he was killed off in COIE...
 
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Old October 13th, 2005   Matches is offline   #15
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might go along with that idea, except that E-2 Lex wasn't bald and he was killed off in COIE...
ddf
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Yup. He was killed *before* the big fight at the beginning of time, fried by Braniac in #9 iirc. More likely is that the Luthor controlling the Society is the E-1 version.

Mockingbird = Hush? I don't see it at all. How would Tommy Elliot have information about all DC's heroes and villains? Hush was never even *mentioned* within the pages of VU; that would have been a huge wtf moment.
 
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Old October 13th, 2005   $croogeMcDuck is offline   #16
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Guess I've got my Earth Luthor numbers all mixed up.
 
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