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View Poll Results: How long will the New Earth DC Continuity stay intact?
FOREVER, there will never be a need for another CRISIS again! 5 6.67%
Well maybe 10 years from now some adjustments will be made to handle the characters (not) aging 27 36.00%
Grant Morrison will get away with whatever whenever, and I won't care cause the story will ROCK 11 14.67%
Well, they'll try real hard but we'll still restart the Earth in 20 years 13 17.33%
somewhere around TWO to THREE years later... 18 24.00%
Won't even make it past 52 and OYL 17 22.67%
Other, explain 5 6.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11th, 2006   Vad Varo is offline   #1
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Default Poll: How long will the post IC continuity stay intact?

Basically I'm kind of thinking that some great stories occasionally need to "fudge" with history in order to make them work.

DC currently has a built in "clean slate" to work with as the New Earth was formed, but my question is...

...how long before somebody breaks what was already established in the New Earth?

(I'm still not so sure there is any reconcilliation of the Green Arrow storyline that occurred in the midst of Crisis...and that happenned AFTER Superboy stopped punching things...but I'll let it slide this time)

btw..as much as a love a unified connected DC with a solid history, I've always been open to GOOD new interpretations.

If nothing else, new interpretations (Chase Lawler Manhunter, Dr. Fate as a knife etc...) makes us really appreciate why the classics are classic.
 
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Old May 11th, 2006   zekeman1 is offline   #2
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2 minutes.
 
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ben, does it have a hemi ?
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Old May 11th, 2006   Ohoni is offline   #3
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I hope that they retcon the final phases of I and OYL out of existance within the year. Maybe coincide it with the first few later issues of 52.
 
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Old May 11th, 2006   Lion Blade is offline   #4
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I selected the 10 year choice. Maybe, there will be something similar to Zero Hour but with more build-up, detail, and development in ten years from now to polish up DCU.
 
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Old May 11th, 2006   Kevinroc is offline   #5
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Probably as long as the current editorial/ creative teams stay in power at DC.

After that? It all goes crazy again.
 
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Old May 11th, 2006   avathar476 is offline   #6
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I selected the 10 year choice. Maybe, there will be something similar to Zero Hour but with more build-up, detail, and development in ten years from now to polish up DCU.
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But will the DCU be ever polished?
 
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Old May 11th, 2006   Impulse is offline   #7
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10 years or so. DC can't help having reality redefining events every decade or so. COIE, ZH, IC - ten years from now there'll be another.
 
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Old May 11th, 2006   DEWLine is offline   #8
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15 years at most. That will be the year of DC's 75th Anniversary as a comics publisher, I believe.
 
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Old May 12th, 2006   Lion Blade is offline   #9
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But will the DCU be ever polished?
ddf
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Excellent point !
 
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Old May 12th, 2006   The Protector is offline   #10
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20 years...

that is I hope we don't see SBP back until then!

I'll be 59 at that point and probably won't care
 
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Old May 12th, 2006   Rokk is offline   #11
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I'm going with 10 years. Unlike Marvel, DC has a hard time keeping itself from constantly trying to re-start, tweak or alter its Universe and history. I wouldn't be surprised if DC unleashed Superboy Prime to do a little more punching to change their Universe.

Personally, I'd rather DC stop trying to change or re-start their Universe and history every decade. I'd just bring back the Multi-verse since it is an easy device to explain away any continuity problems and it gives writers plenty of room to create all sorts of different characters and storylines.
 
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Old May 12th, 2006   ChastMastr is offline   #12
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Unlike Marvel, DC has a hard time keeping itself from constantly trying to re-start, tweak or alter its Universe and history.
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Actually, I think Marvel does all of those -- they just do it in different ways, or drop various things without explanation. Reed Richards and Ben Grimm were in WWII together, and rushed their space mission without adequate shielding because they were trying to beat the Soviet Space Program; many early Marvel Universe stories involved Cold War Communist spies; none of that is in continuity now. Jean Grey died in X-Men #137; no, that wasn't really Jean. And of course the Scarlet Spider Clone Saga ... and many many others. Aunt May was dead. No, that was someone else posing as her. The Vision was the original android Human Torch. No, he was made from his spare parts. Vision and Scarlet Witch had kids. No, that was some kind of magically-induced event which wasn't what it seemed. Magneto is a bad guy; no, he's just deeply troubled but reforming; now he's a good guy; no, that was all because Xavier and Moira MacTaggart messed with his mind; now he's psychotically evil and nearly destroyed New York; no, he's a good guy (but still troubled) living in the ruins of Genosha; no, that was all the Scarlet Witch's fault, somehow or other; and so on. Marvel just ends up with a stream of mistaken identities, clones, robot doubles, illusions, energy beings duplicating one's appearance and memories, and so on for one array of retcons, and kind of just ignores the others. (I assume in current continuity over there, Colossus wasn't raised on a collective farm and wasn't particularly Communist, "Lenin's Ghost!" and all, since the Soviet Union fell fifteen years ago and he's maybe in his twenties or so, which would let out the brainwashed Proletarian story from waaaaay back when as being in continuity. How they deal with the intensely Disco-themed past of Dazzler without making her about forty-five years old at minimum, I have no idea, but I imagine they just don't bring it up.)

In some ways a hard reboot would be simpler.

Actually I'm very interested in Claremont's planned neXt series in which the X-Men and New Mutants aged normally from their appearances in the 1980s...

But as far as DC goes? I honestly expect the next one in about four to five years (soft reboot) or ten (hard, official reboot) for reasons I should start a different thread on I've been thinking about...

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Old May 12th, 2006   Lion Blade is offline   #13
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Personally, I'd rather DC stop trying to change or re-start their Universe and history every decade. I'd just bring back the Multi-verse since it is an easy device to explain away any continuity problems and it gives writers plenty of room to create all sorts of different characters and storylines.
ddf
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Try telling that to Didio! We had the Hypertime, but Didio doesn't want to acknowledge its existence.
 
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Old May 12th, 2006   ChastMastr is offline   #14
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Heh. I really must start that thread over on the general comic section. I am thinking of calling it "How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Retcons" or such.

Heck, I still think we have Hypertime, and always did... because it's part of the nature of fiction, not because it's the official DC Comics canon at any given moment.

David
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Old May 13th, 2006   Rokk is offline   #15
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Actually, I think Marvel does all of those -- they just do it in different ways, or drop various things without explanation.
ddf
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I snipped the entire post, but you do make some great points. Marvel definately tweaks and/or forgets some of their past. I guess for me the soft subtle changes of Marvel don't always grab my attention. Marvel seems to change things without making a huge deal of it unlike DC's attention getting universe shattering reboots. Of course, some times a hard reboot is a cleaner change then forgetting or contradicting your cannon.
 
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Old May 13th, 2006   ChastMastr is offline   #16
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I agree. In many ways I think a hard reboot -- or, better yet, rather than a universe(s)/time-altering story, just saying, "okay, we're going to start another universe now" (like Marvel did with their Ultimate line) "and let the old one develop in whatever way the writers want to without having to keep it static." For example, Joe Quesada said something in an interview which bothered me recently -- and I am speaking as someone quite interested in what Marvel is doing -- he hates the whole "Spider-Man marries Mary Jane" thing because he sees Spider-Man as someone who needs to always come back to basically struggling and being miserable all the time, never really tied down romantically in a way which can't be easily undone. He sees the marriage as limiting.

I think it's fantastic and I love what Straczynski is doing on the book. But I can also see how being able to read tales of Peter wrestling with romance is appealing. Then again, Marvel has the Ultimate line for that... in a way I think Peter deserves some kind of happiness. (And if the only way we can "identify" with him is to be miserable, goodness, what does that say?)

Speaking also as someone who really loves old literature, myth and legend, one thing I love about some of the world-ending reboots, possible future stories and so on, is that it often gives characters grand finales or endings, happy or otherwise. I loved Superman Family #200, Alan Moore's final Superman story, Kingdom Come and DC One Million in different ways precisely because they give a conclusion to Superman's adventures and life -- all in different ways (SF #200 in a more standard "happy ending" way, Moore's story in a semi-tragic but still happy ending way with its grand final battle, KC in a sort of overcoming-dystopia way and DC One Million in a kind of trippy way, but if you haven't read it SPOILER ALERT at the end the Superman of today turns out to still be alive so far in the future, but due to all kinds of strange, mind-bending things which have happened, he is able to bring not only Lois back to life but lost Krypton, in a future Utopia which makes the old Legion look tame... wow... SPOILERS END

In many respects I'd be happier if DC, and Marvel, would indeed periodically reboot everything without the need for world-changing crossovers, or without the smaller clone/duplicate/whatever changes, or without just ignoring things -- just start off a new world and let it develop in its own way over a period of years, and then bring things to whatever conclusion makes sense, and start a new one. Superman can marry Lois and have kids. Or turn out to be unable to have kids. Or deal with the tragedy of Lois' death and marry Wonder Woman. Batman can be light and fun, or dark and tragic, or nearly psychotic, or the world's greatest detective (I AM glad he's back to that again, myself), and the stories could fit whatever people want at the time without having to change the prior version, or explain the shift to a new one -- no need to alter time with a new backstory, it's just another take on the character. So much of the post-Crisis Superman was distinctively '80s -- and he could have just gone on and had a distinctively '80s conclusion and DC could have started a new one. (Heck, if Superman had STAYED DEAD and they'd started a new DCU a while later, showing what the prior version would have been like as time went on and people kept him as an inspiration -- I LOVED Funeral For A Friend and didn't think the "Return Of" storyline was nearly as well-written -- it could have been genuinely interesting. And they could have created a new DCU with a new '90s take on the character without having to have a "back from the death" story...)

I loved Alan Moore's Swamp Thing -- and I think his last story works best as the finale for the character -- and ever since, I think they've had to try a lot harder to make the character work, often getting Abby out of the picture in ways which I don't think are true to the characters as Moore wrote them. If that had just remained the last Swamp Thing story, apart from rare guest appearances in his "retirement," and DC had started a new one in whatever new continuity they'd made, who might or might not meet and fall in love with an Abby -- or might not be an elemental in the first place, as they could do whatever they like -- then I think it would have worked better.

It's kind of like King Arthur or Beowulf or many other characters in literature -- their story really isn't complete without some kind of real ending. And having to reboot everything, or retcon everything, is in my view better than just keeping things going, but not so good as just starting fresh.

David
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