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Old July 23rd, 2011   Atom is offline   #81
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Originally, Reed and Ben had been in WWII, and had fought one mission with Sgt Fury and the Howling Commandos.

If you're old enough to have read them from the beginning or have read Essential Fantastic Four #1, you'd know that.


It was referenced in the issue where Fury came to get the FF's help with the 'Hate Monger', who turned out to be a clone of Hitler.
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Dang - I knew I'd forgotten about the WWII, but I kept thinking that was too far back. With them having an origin starting in the early 60's, that would have been less than 20 years ago - putting both guys in their late 30's, early 40's (or thereabouts). Which would be well within the wiggle-room a regular series could show a mature, healthy adult man (like Reed or Ben) as being capable of doing the things they do, without falling into the aging or creepy elements (a 45 year old Reed chasing a 17 year old Sue, for example).
 
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Old July 26th, 2011   Devlyn16 is offline   #82
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Question: Does anyone think that the Art in any way impacted this? I recall stories of Marvel artists being told to ditch their style and "draw the Marvel way"

Did this homogenized art work help Marvel?
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Cloud101 is offline   #83
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Marvel pumps out a lot more books vs DC.

As for the whole Marvel is cooler and has better artists than DC, I disagree, but like one poster said, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I have been a Marvel zombie for a long time. I always thought they had cooler character, besides Batman. For the past decade, I have been doing research and reading a lot more DC stories from different characters like Deadman, Resurrection Man, LOSH, Green Lantern, JSA, etc... IMHO, DC has the better characters.

They have a bigger, better cosmic characters, better magical characters, better all around heroes, speedsters, and teams (LOSH, JSA, JLA, Freedom Fighters, Doom Patrol, etc...). Their universe all around is more vast and rich.

As for artists, both companies are great, but much prefer DC's over Marvels right now.

It's not all bad, though. DC in general has more critical success than Marvel and their TV shows are better across the board. Movies need to improve and need to showcase more characters.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   chrisbenes is offline   #84
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They have a bigger, better cosmic characters, better magical characters, better all around heroes, speedsters, and teams (LOSH, JSA, JLA, Freedom Fighters, Doom Patrol, etc...). Their universe all around is more vast and rich.
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again this is circumstantial....Avengers, FF, X-Men just to name a few. And if DC thought JSA was a big player where is their #1?

Again cosmic aside from GL what's there (and I ask because I do not read much DC anymore)


It's not all bad, though. DC in general has more critical success than Marvel and their TV shows are better across the board. Movies need to improve and need to showcase more characters.
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IMO DC needs to market their heroes better. Marvel does a much better job at marketing it's core heroes and it shows not only in sales of comics but at the box office as well.

I agree DC cartoons have always been great but cartoons don't bring in the hundreds of millions of dollars the movies do. And successful movies have more of a chance to bring new readers IMO than cartoons (which is sad because it used to be about kids).
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Bob Francis is offline   #85
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IMO DC needs to market their heroes better. Marvel does a much better job at marketing it's core heroes and it shows not only in sales of comics but at the box office as well.
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A couple of years ago at NYCC, I spoke to some of the marketing people at DC about this. I mentioned that Marvel licenses just about everything. I work in a bakery, and through Decopac, cake toppers starring their characters pop up constantly. Movie tie-ins are especially promoted, and even second and third tier characters get deep marketing pushes.

I can't tell you how many times I had to say to customers "I'm sorry, WB hasn't licensed a Green Lantern cake."

WB is very very tight on what they will license across the line and are always conscious of the return on investment. The aforementioned marketing rep said that they "guard the property's image". That philosophy has to change.

Disney and Marvel come from the same school of shotgun marketing. Push everything!
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Atom is offline   #86
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Again cosmic aside from GL what's there (and I ask because I do not read much DC anymore)
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Well, there's the:

Tamareneans (like Starfire and her sister's race)
Thanagarians (like Hawkman)
The whole Omega Men and their races
The Durlans
The Daxamites
Lobo
L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S.
All the myriad races that the GL's are made of and that they've visited
Adam Strange and the Rannians
Reaching way back... Space Cabbie!
Captain Comet - or now just known as Comet, I guess
All the somewhat "villain" races that hammered the DCU during the Invasion event

For specific heroes/villains: Starfire, Blackfire, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Lobo, Golden Eagle, Omega Men (like Ryand'r, Auron, Tigorr, Nimbus, Broot, and others), L.E.G.I.O.N. members (like Vril Dox, R.J. Brande, Strata, Stealth, Garryn, and others), Adam Strange, Alanna Strange, Comet, Space Ranger, Space Cabbie, Mongul, the Atomic Knights, Starro, Despero, L-Ron, Kanjar Ro, Darkseid, Mentor, Highfather... and the list goes on and on.

DC has a very rich cosmic/space history due to their many space series that ran through the 50's and beyond, and while they don't always showcase their space heroes, they still pop up in books from time to time.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   chrisbenes is offline   #87
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Well, there's the:

Tamareneans (like Starfire and her sister's race)
Thanagarians (like Hawkman)
The whole Omega Men and their races
The Durlans
The Daxamites
Lobo
L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S.
All the myriad races that the GL's are made of and that they've visited
Adam Strange and the Rannians
Reaching way back... Space Cabbie!
Captain Comet - or now just known as Comet, I guess
All the somewhat "villain" races that hammered the DCU during the Invasion event

For specific heroes/villains: Starfire, Blackfire, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Lobo, Golden Eagle, Omega Men (like Ryand'r, Auron, Tigorr, Nimbus, Broot, and others), L.E.G.I.O.N. members (like Vril Dox, R.J. Brande, Strata, Stealth, Garryn, and others), Adam Strange, Alanna Strange, Comet, Space Ranger, Space Cabbie, Mongul, the Atomic Knights, Starro, Despero, L-Ron, Kanjar Ro, Darkseid, Mentor, Highfather... and the list goes on and on.

DC has a very rich cosmic/space history due to their many space series that ran through the 50's and beyond, and while they don't always showcase their space heroes, they still pop up in books from time to time.
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that's a nice list but Marvel has a comparable Cosmic list as well so really it's all about people's taste. I think the issue with Marvel is that they just recently started exploring their space characters more when Annihilation started.

Aside from GL Marvel has IMO had more success with D&A heading the Annihilation books as well as War of King's, Thanos Imperative, Guardians and Nova. Sucks that it's on a break but they'll be back.

But again it's all opinion based.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   chrisbenes is offline   #88
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A couple of years ago at NYCC, I spoke to some of the marketing people at DC about this. I mentioned that Marvel licenses just about everything. I work in a bakery, and through Decopac, cake toppers starring their characters pop up constantly. Movie tie-ins are especially promoted, and even second and third tier characters get deep marketing pushes.

I can't tell you how many times I had to say to customers "I'm sorry, WB hasn't licensed a Green Lantern cake."

WB is very very tight on what they will license across the line and are always conscious of the return on investment. The aforementioned marketing rep said that they "guard the property's image". That philosophy has to change.

Disney and Marvel come from the same school of shotgun marketing. Push everything!
ddf
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Which is exactly why Marvel is tops in the industry. DC's got some great characters they can market...they just choose not to.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   jafabian is offline   #89
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Sounds to me as though the WB has more to say about licensing that DC actually does. That's the difference between Marvel and DC. But then again, Marvel has filed for bankruptcy protection in its past and DC never has. For their own reasons, DC is a bit more conservative in its business dealings than Marvel.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Cloud101 is offline   #90
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DC lately has been dominating the top 10. So their icons/primary heroes don't need to be marketed any further. It's their secondary characters that need a push. Marvel's sell better on average. That is the trick.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Stephen Henel is offline   #91
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Question: Does anyone think that the Art in any way impacted this? I recall stories of Marvel artists being told to ditch their style and "draw the Marvel way"

Did this homogenized art work help Marvel?
ddf
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It's not homogenized at all. Skottie Young? Ed McGuinness? Oeming? Maleev? Fuente? Bagely? From my perspective, it's much more diverse than DC.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Atom is offline   #92
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that's a nice list but Marvel has a comparable Cosmic list as well so really it's all about people's taste. I think the issue with Marvel is that they just recently started exploring their space characters more when Annihilation started.

Aside from GL Marvel has IMO had more success with D&A heading the Annihilation books as well as War of King's, Thanos Imperative, Guardians and Nova. Sucks that it's on a break but they'll be back.

But again it's all opinion based.
ddf
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Agreed. Marvel's space based heroes had a late start compared to many of the DC ones, but Marvel did a nice job of starting with the Silver Surfer (and a few points prior) and branching out into many, many areas through the efforts of the FF and others. And lately, Marvel has done a great job of bringing back their space-based heroes in a way that is fun and exciting. I'm a big fan of Guardians (disappointed that its not back yet) and Nova (same), so I'm on the lookout for its return.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Jake1823 is offline   #93
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It's not homogenized at all. Skottie Young? Ed McGuinness? Oeming? Maleev? Fuente? Bagely? From my perspective, it's much more diverse than DC.
ddf
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Those guys are the ones that stick out, though. They're not the majority. Plus, their work is pretty irregular, at that. In the case of Young and Oeming, they rarely do Marvel-proper work.

Just like with DC, you could say Quitely, JHWIII, Freddie Williams II, ChrisCross, Amanda Conner, Cameron Stewart, Francis manapul, Frazier Irving, etc., but you wouldn't really be telling the full story.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Jake1823 is offline   #94
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that's a nice list but Marvel has a comparable Cosmic list as well so really it's all about people's taste. I think the issue with Marvel is that they just recently started exploring their space characters more when Annihilation started.

Aside from GL Marvel has IMO had more success with D&A heading the Annihilation books as well as War of King's, Thanos Imperative, Guardians and Nova. Sucks that it's on a break but they'll be back.

But again it's all opinion based.
ddf
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Do we include GL in DC-cosmic? If so, then DC's done pretty darn well.

I'm just not sure what the common category for that.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Jake1823 is offline   #95
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Those guys are the ones that stick out, though. They're not the majority. Plus, their work is pretty irregular, at that. In the case of Young and Oeming, they rarely do Marvel-proper work.

Just like with DC, you could say Quitely, JHWIII, Freddie Williams II, ChrisCross, Amanda Conner, Cameron Stewart, Francis manapul, Frazier Irving, etc., but you wouldn't really be telling the full story.
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To add to this, both companies have a majority of very subpar art, imo. If one company leads another in quality, it's only by a little.

edit-That's not true, actually. The artists can be good at their style. Let me rephrase, there's not a lot of variety in both companies.
Last edited by Jake1823; July 27th, 2011 at 06:08 PM.
 
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Old July 27th, 2011   Sentinel119 is offline   #96
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Well, there's the:

Tamareneans (like Starfire and her sister's race)
Thanagarians (like Hawkman)
The whole Omega Men and their races
The Durlans
The Daxamites
Lobo
L.E.G.I.O.N./R.E.B.E.L.S.
All the myriad races that the GL's are made of and that they've visited
Adam Strange and the Rannians
Reaching way back... Space Cabbie!
Captain Comet - or now just known as Comet, I guess
All the somewhat "villain" races that hammered the DCU during the Invasion event

For specific heroes/villains: Starfire, Blackfire, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Lobo, Golden Eagle, Omega Men (like Ryand'r, Auron, Tigorr, Nimbus, Broot, and others), L.E.G.I.O.N. members (like Vril Dox, R.J. Brande, Strata, Stealth, Garryn, and others), Adam Strange, Alanna Strange, Comet, Space Ranger, Space Cabbie, Mongul, the Atomic Knights, Starro, Despero, L-Ron, Kanjar Ro, Darkseid, Mentor, Highfather... and the list goes on and on.

DC has a very rich cosmic/space history due to their many space series that ran through the 50's and beyond, and while they don't always showcase their space heroes, they still pop up in books from time to time.
ddf
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But all of the stuff that they have tried to do cosmically outside of GL has kind of fallen apart or sputtered out. Look at Countdown to Adventure and The Rann/Thanagar War series. Those were just horrible.
 
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