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Old April 15th, 2013   JRM is offline   #65
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Welcome back. Anyway, I just want a selection of well crafted books to pick and choose from.

I think we all can agree on that.

Less hype, more substance.

Sales might start off low, but eventually quality usually speaks for itself if you stick with it through the long run.
ddf
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Mark, I just wish that DC would heed your call - I think what you are saying is what most of us are thinking to some degree or another.

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Old April 15th, 2013   Greg Waite is offline   #66
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I just have one question for everyone here:

Can't we all hope that this is a dream? Or in some cases, a nightmare?

(I'm referring to Dallas and Roseanne, where the last few seasons of both TV shows were just a dream. In Roseanne's case, her husband Dan died at Darlene's wedding but the show kept going for another season because Roseanne wrote a story to her grandchild. In Dallas's case, Sue Ellen woke up from a dream to find her husband (who had died earlier) in the shower alive)

Sorry for the little rant.


Anyways, I haven't read COIE so I'll assume that's when Barry sacrificed himself to save the world and that's how we got Wally as the Flash?
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Alan is offline   #67
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I just have one question for everyone here:

Can't we all hope that this is a dream? Or in some cases, a nightmare?

(I'm referring to Dallas and Roseanne, where the last few seasons of both TV shows were just a dream. In Roseanne's case, her husband Dan died at Darlene's wedding but the show kept going for another season because Roseanne wrote a story to her grandchild. In Dallas's case, Sue Ellen woke up from a dream to find her husband (who had died earlier) in the shower alive)

Sorry for the little rant.


Anyways, I haven't read COIE so I'll assume that's when Barry sacrificed himself to save the world and that's how we got Wally as the Flash?
ddf
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It's well worth reading actually. Of all the DC 'event' books it would be one I would happily reread and would recommend. Whether its as good as I remember is another matter though!

We are where we are. If we were judging DC just by their best 10 books at the moment I would say the reboot was a huge success. And sales on those are pretty outstanding too (Batman is selling around the 150,000 mark still). Their best writers are producing outstanding work along with some great artists. And there are some good new writers being given a chance. Talon is a good example of a book featuring a new character, by a new writer that is very good indeed.

But DC aren't being judged by their best, but by the bulk of their monthly product.

The problems are clearly at the lower end and with the bizarre editorial decisions that they are not learning from. With poor execution of ideas and endless rewrites and creative changes.

I am still however buying more DC titles now than I was before the reboot. But there are a bunch at the bottom that are pretty awful. With the right team though things can be turned around quickly - as Lemire has just proved with Green Arrow.

I don't miss the pre 85 universe, effectively we have much of it back anyway. Barry Allen, Katar Hol, a separate Earth 2. All I want are good comics, and this reboot forced Marvel into their own marketing scam which so far is producing great books and good sales. And even though DC were down last month, Marvel won't hold the same percentage of sales when the Ultron books have gone (which are proving to be a huge damp squib sadly). But they will still hold the upper hand and deserve to.
 
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Old April 15th, 2013   Scott Mateo is offline   #68
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I would be happy just going back to pre-FP. Although I HATED COIE, I feel we have spent enough time correcting things and continuity wasn't that bad. We just needed a few tweeks like Powergirl, Donna Troy and Hawkman.

Powergirl - If they didn't want her to be from some multiple earth, the fix was easy. She was still Kal's cousin, but from LARA's side of the family (Lara's sisters daughter and still a Kryptonian). Simple.

Donna Troy - George Perez meshed this all out PERFECTLY until Byrne had to get involved. Wipe out the Byrne Donna/Dark Angel arc.

Hawkman - Again, simple. Two sets of hawks. One form Thanagar (Katar and Shayera) and the other two from Earth. This fixes the whole JLA/JSA/Infinity Inc. mess.

For the record...NOT liking the New52.
I dropped over half my monthly pull list = no $$ for DC.
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Old April 15th, 2013   mego joe is offline   #69
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It's well worth reading actually. Of all the DC 'event' books it would be one I would happily reread and would recommend. Whether its as good as I remember is another matter though!

We are where we are. If we were judging DC just by their best 10 books at the moment I would say the reboot was a huge success. And sales on those are pretty outstanding too (Batman is selling around the 150,000 mark still). Their best writers are producing outstanding work along with some great artists. And there are some good new writers being given a chance. Talon is a good example of a book featuring a new character, by a new writer that is very good indeed.

But DC aren't being judged by their best, but by the bulk of their monthly product.

The problems are clearly at the lower end and with the bizarre editorial decisions that they are not learning from. With poor execution of ideas and endless rewrites and creative changes.

I am still however buying more DC titles now than I was before the reboot. But there are a bunch at the bottom that are pretty awful. With the right team though things can be turned around quickly - as Lemire has just proved with Green Arrow.

I don't miss the pre 85 universe, effectively we have much of it back anyway. Barry Allen, Katar Hol, a separate Earth 2. All I want are good comics, and this reboot forced Marvel into their own marketing scam which so far is producing great books and good sales. And even though DC were down last month, Marvel won't hold the same percentage of sales when the Ultron books have gone (which are proving to be a huge damp squib sadly). But they will still hold the upper hand and deserve to.
ddf
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I've re read COIE a couple times in the past few years and I think it still holds up. I really makes wistful for those pre-COIE days.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   starks is offline   #70
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Comics are selling more this year than the previous year. I doubt DC will make any major changes to what they're doing. And I wouldn't blame them.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   WeirdoLegionnaire is offline   #71
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Yes, DC's putting out some crap stuff. But the overwhelming majority of the current output is good to great.

And there's always been some crap titles out there, even before the reboot, or the Crisis, or anything. We fondly remember the good stuff and block out the bad.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   superfriend is offline   #72
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Comics are selling more this year than the previous year. I doubt DC will make any major changes to what they're doing. And I wouldn't blame them.
ddf
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maybe it'll be a bubble like the 90s and the speculators/collectors will tire of paying top dollar for variants and gimmicks that don't pan out (cause a percentage of them aren't reading them anyway, just buying) and the retailers, if they're getting burned, will stop going for incentives that they can no longer sell to the vacating speculators.

with digital undermining brick & mortar shops and the low margins compared to the 90s, there might be a catastrophic extinction-level event on the other end of things.

not sure. i have a suspicion that i might be completely done with comics though. they've kinda lamestreamed and i think i've aged out.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #73
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maybe it'll be a bubble like the 90s and the speculators/collectors will tire of paying top dollar for variants and gimmicks that don't pan out (cause a percentage of them aren't reading them anyway, just buying) and the retailers, if they're getting burned, will stop going for incentives that they can no longer sell to the vacating speculators.

with digital undermining brick & mortar shops and the low margins compared to the 90s, there might be a catastrophic extinction-level event on the other end of things.

not sure. i have a suspicion that i might be completely done with comics though. they've kinda lamestreamed and i think i've aged out.
ddf
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There's a whole slew of great non-Big 2 stuff out there. One thing the New52 really taught me is that I don't need DC. I have back issues if I need a Batman fix. Titles like SAGA, FATALE, and BLACK BEETLE are making my experience with reading comics more rewarding than it has been in years. I'm finally able to pick up a lot of the non-DC/Marvel books that looked interesting but couldn't fit into my budget before.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   TJLamb0518 is offline   #74
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(I'm referring to Dallas and Roseanne, where the last few seasons of both TV shows were just a dream. In Roseanne's case, her husband Dan died at Darlene's wedding but the show kept going for another season because Roseanne wrote a story to her grandchild.
ddf
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Actually, she wrote the book as her own catharsis after Dan died. Darlene's baby almost dying was what got her out of her depression because the family needed her to be strong.

In Dallas's case, Sue Ellen woke up from a dream to find her husband (who had died earlier) in the shower alive)
ddf
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Now I just want to smack you, you philistine! It was PAM who woke up from the dream to find the previously thought to be dead Bobby in the shower!


Kids, nowadays....what are ya gonna do?
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   jafabian is offline   #75
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There's a whole slew of great non-Big 2 stuff out there. One thing the New52 really taught me is that I don't need DC. I have back issues if I need a Batman fix. Titles like SAGA, FATALE, and BLACK BEETLE are making my experience with reading comics more rewarding than it has been in years. I'm finally able to pick up a lot of the non-DC/Marvel books that looked interesting but couldn't fit into my budget before.
ddf
Mr. Wrong View Post

Whenever there's a reboot it's always said your favorite stories are still around but that the publisher/studio is moving in a different direction. When I drop books I try to check out publishers other than Marvel and DC and see if there's something there I might like just as much.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   Sentinel119 is offline   #76
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And hence the B-I-G problem, DC would have readers pushing for about a dozen different starting points and being unhappy if theirs isn't picked, unhappy if it is and it's done in a way that they we're not imagining.

Jim
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I just felt like that was when the best writing and storytelling was going on.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   Mark MacMillan is offline   #77
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I just felt like that was when the best writing and storytelling was going on.
ddf
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His point was there are others who would argue the writing was way better before that.

For me, nothing beats most of the stuff from the first 6yrs after CoIE whereas everything after that was mostly painful just to look at, let alone actually read.

No Man's Land and Starman were the only things I really liked going through back issues after over 10yrs of not buying comics.

But I wouldn't want to go back to my favourite era, either because like Jim said, not everyone would like that.

There's no way to please everyone, so DC shouldn't even try to do that.

They should simply do what they went into business to do. Produce a quality selection of comics that consumers can pick and choose from.

That's it.

More substance and less hype.
 
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Old April 16th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #78
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I just felt like that was when the best writing and storytelling was going on.
ddf
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In a way, that's sort of what DC has done. It's not got the tone, but it has the characters (mostly) of the silver age.
 
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Old April 17th, 2013   John is offline   #79
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I bet Neil and Emerald City are feeling it!
ddf
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Old April 17th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #80
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Comics are selling more this year than the previous year. I doubt DC will make any major changes to what they're doing. And I wouldn't blame them.
ddf
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Part of that is just that the market is growing.
 
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