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Old April 14th, 2013   Werehunter is offline   #17
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Hmm no. DC's problem is too many reboot/relaunches/retcons whatever you want to call them. Too many creators are trying to balance bringing back what they loved growing up while retaining what they enjoy from the present. Which has only left us with a mess where not even those on staff knows what's part of a character's history anymore.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   Mark MacMillan is offline   #18
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DC Comics

Proudly dividing their fanbase with every event since 1985.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   1peace is offline   #19
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1985 was 28 years ago. Lots of comic buyers weren't even born then, so you are looking at something which only appeals to the over 40's.

Is that really where we should be heading?

It's my era too, so I know what you are getting at, and I was perfectly happy with the pre-Crisis era in some ways. But actually lots of it was boring as hell, and going backwards is never a great idea.

And even you are happy to tamper with it to include your own favourites (Jaime as Blue Beetle rather than Ted Kord for instance), so it will never please everyone as we all have our own ideal DC world.

So stop worrying and let the writers etc get on with it, for good or bad.

There is nothing wrong with buying good comics from all companies. I do, and would buy more from all if I could afford it. There is a lot of good stuff out there, including from DC.
ddf
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us old comic book guys are never going to happy at this point.
our time has pasted pretty much as far a continuity goes it seems to me.

i can't imagine our wives moaning as bad as we do over their soap opera characters . even if they were unaging like our soap opera characters. would Luke and Laura from general hospital or Susan Lucy still be doing the same, acting the same or have to have the same history after 25-30 years?

DC comic characters and history has jump the shark more than a few times but come back as well. I'm not sure judging the future by the past is the best. It may not be as good as it was or as bad but it can't really stay the same and grow. Even if we don't agree with the direction.
At this point its just a such a mix i can't really follow it anymore. i don't even try. I just hope for a cool story now and then. even if the character i knew as "X" is now from a different planet, dimension, timeline, has different powers and is now a women.

the old days were great but they are gone. I hope new writers can bring some juice.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   mego joe is offline   #20
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I would love it but I can't imagine more than a handful of ppl who would go for it.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #21
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to be honest, i think from a business standpoint the biggest market share would be hitting people who grew up reading in the post-COIE era. You have the kids of comic readers and lots of new readers who came up in that time, while the pre-COIE era is going to be over 40s etc. That smaller group would buy the pre-COIE return, but i think there was enough spirit in the Post-COIE that you can still make the fans happy.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   JRM is offline   #22
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5 thoughts:

1. Th team suggested just sounds like a variation of Marvel's Exiles (rather than the original Malibu Exiles).

2. Each time someone at DC (usually Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison) has tried to unpick parts of the reboots, that has arguably added to problem; if others do not play with the same toys with the same vision of the person who unpicked the reboot problems ensue (witness the fixing of Hawkman and then breaking those fixes for the umpteenth time).

3. Does looking backwards guarantee good stories now? I am not so sure. DC have largely lost me as a reader (3 regular books, probably 2 soon), but their obsessive focus on continuity - clearing the slate or adding back in what was swept away has been so much front and centre that I feel they lost many, many opportunities to tell good stories.

4. Following on from that, telling good stories should be the focus, not recurrent continuity fixes. Advocating yet another continuity fix is arguably not the way - they have already divided the fan-base 4-5 times from 1985 onward with continuity shifting events, and I do not see how that can be reconciled, how they can un-divide those divisions by creating more division and looking backwards.

5. And finally, there was a different tonality to the silver age; do fans want current DC obsessions of sex and violence applied to those characters? Think about how Ted Kord went out - the final death of silver age maybe?
ddf
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Yup - sums it up both well and clearly. The 1985 ship has sailed (or it should have). Yes, at times creators have done good things with earlier elements - but the same could be said about King Arthur or Robin Hood; however, the best of these (and other strong and lasting genre pieces) is new interpretation and additions that build on what is most archetypal about the concept. At times, we see this about various "reboots", re-imagining and updatings and they tend to work. Then we have the takes that do not in any way reflect the source concept other than in a forced manner- and only very, very rarely do readers respond well.

The problem with the n52 is not its concept at the root, but its general execution. If more of the long standing key books were strong and stayed strong and if the general turn over of creators had been better avoided - I believed that, after some grumbling, most old times would have jumped aboard as we did back in the mid-late 80's. Problem DC went to that well to many times - and too many of those times, they didn't pull it off.

Finally, DC in the early 80's seemed to be an exciting innovative place with a stable of strong and more importantly diverse voices - by the mid 80's it had built itself into being the new "House of Ideas" We saw a bit of that around the time of 52 and OYL but within a year things were quickly going downhill. Problem is most of those voices are effectively retirement age or close to it. Do they still have the interest in and ideas today???? Some seem to, others not so much.

Not sure what the best fix would be - really there is no way to come out of this stronger. It is a pity - DC use to be an imprint that encouraged tonal diversity and creativity - today, it is all about building to the next event that few are excited about or even interested in.

<sigh>

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Old April 14th, 2013   JRM is offline   #23
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Here's how it works:

1. DC reboots.

2. Elements of the preboot universe gradually start working their way back into the reboot universe.

3. It gets to the point where both universes are considered to be parts of one big history.

4. Repeat.

Seriously, by the time DC did Flashpoint, it was like Crisis on Infinite Earths had never happened. The multiverse was back, Bat-Mite was back, multiple colors of kryptonite were back. Everything that DC used CoIE to get rid of eventually found it's way back. By that point, even stories like "The Caveman from Krypton" were being acknowledged as part of history again.

So it's not really necessary to ask DC to bring back the pre-CoIE universe. It had already come back. And it will again. As will the pre-Flashpoint universe. Slowly, gradually, piece by piece. But it'll happen.
ddf
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Sadly true, especially when the parts that really do deserve to be chucked come back like a bad penny.

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Old April 14th, 2013   JRM is offline   #24
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1985 was 28 years ago. Lots of comic buyers weren't even born then, so you are looking at something which only appeals to the over 40's.

Is that really where we should be heading?

It's my era too, so I know what you are getting at, and I was perfectly happy with the pre-Crisis era in some ways. But actually lots of it was boring as hell, and going backwards is never a great idea.

And even you are happy to tamper with it to include your own favourites (Jaime as Blue Beetle rather than Ted Kord for instance), so it will never please everyone as we all have our own ideal DC world.

So stop worrying and let the writers etc get on with it, for good or bad.

There is nothing wrong with buying good comics from all companies. I do, and would buy more from all if I could afford it. There is a lot of good stuff out there, including from DC.
ddf
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Old April 14th, 2013   JRM is offline   #25
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DC Comics

Proudly dividing their fanbase with every event since 1985.
ddf
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Yup - you've said it all.

Jim
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   chrisbenes is offline   #26
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I read very little DC books...Well Batman and that's it. But IMO they should have rebooted everything..From scratch....Instead they kept certain characters (Batman and Green Latern) intact while trying to so call "fix" others.

Also if you reboot everything shorten the stories. You can introduce many characters in 1-3 issue story arcs. My problem with stories these days is they are stretched out so they can so fit them in a trade. Get your new intros out then move to longer arcs if desired.

But to go back 28 years....I think that would be a stretch....Just wipe everything out and start from the beginning.

Or admit you should never have touched anything and go back to where you left off.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   TJLamb0518 is offline   #27
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Boy, imagine if old Rex Tyler ever got around to rebuilding the Android Hourman, who would leave the Timepoint bubble or whatever that was only to find THIS mess? Yeah, Booster and Rip could be fun, but THAt'S a plot thread they let dangle way too long.....
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   Sentinel119 is offline   #28
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Go back to post Zero Hour and Pre-IC.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #29
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I read very little DC books...Well Batman and that's it. But IMO they should have rebooted everything..From scratch....Instead they kept certain characters (Batman and Green Latern) intact while trying to so call "fix" others.

Also if you reboot everything shorten the stories. You can introduce many characters in 1-3 issue story arcs. My problem with stories these days is they are stretched out so they can so fit them in a trade. Get your new intros out then move to longer arcs if desired.

But to go back 28 years....I think that would be a stretch....Just wipe everything out and start from the beginning.

Or admit you should never have touched anything and go back to where you left off.
ddf
chrisbenes View Post
This is really the issue, as others have said: Execution. DC said they were doing a total reboot with no more "writing for trade" and titles at $2.99. Instead we got an immediately convoluted universe and timeline where we were starting "Five years after the heroes appeared" as a half-hearted way of trying to justify NOT completely rebooting GL and Batman, immediate arcs that were 6-9 issues long (Swamp Thing was the worst perpetrator of this) and a number of books at $3.99 for no real justified reason.

The additional ridiculous turnover in creative teams (as noted) added to this.

IF DC had stuck to their original promises, I'm sure the New 52 would be thriving.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   JRM is offline   #30
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Go back to post Zero Hour and Pre-IC.
ddf
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And hence the B-I-G problem, DC would have readers pushing for about a dozen different starting points and being unhappy if theirs isn't picked, unhappy if it is and it's done in a way that they we're not imagining.

Jim
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   Scott Mateo is offline   #31
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Go back to post Zero Hour and Pre-IC.
ddf
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Yep. And if you want to alter time to fix things? Send Booster back to stop Dr. Light from raping Sue Dibney.
 
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Old April 14th, 2013   Sp33df0rc3 is offline   #32
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Go back to post Zero Hour and Pre-IC.
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I would totally be up for this.
 
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