The Comic Bloc Forums

Go Back   The Comic Bloc Forums > General Talk > DC Comics

DC Comics Metropolis, Gotham, Coast City, Opal City, Smallville and other points East.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 17th, 2005   Guru is offline   #1
Guru's Avatar
Guru
Member

 
joined: Jan 2005
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario Canada
Posts: 695

Default

1. Are CM3 and Mary really necessary?

I know they give Billy supporting characters for his own title.

But he doesnt have his own title and i think they are cardboard characters.

2. How does the three of them using powers derived from one set of gods...because really they would have to be if they share the pool of powers affect those gods themselves.

I am thinking mainly about Zeus and how maybe Cap should be more related to the WW title and whats goin on there.

3. Whats the purpose of Shazam other then a mediator between the gods themselves and the Marvel family? If Shazam was a champion before and now he is a great and wizened wizard..why doesn't he grant them power himself?

4. In future timeline Captain Marvel has been shown as taking over for Shazam and being the wizened old Wizard, will the same happen for Black Adam?

5. And speaking of Adam, why is it that the Teth Adam personality takes over for Theo Adam, and yet for Billy its Billy all grown up as Cap with his mind set with Solomons aid and the others etc?

This is a definate as shown in the JSA issues.

6. Say they aren't powered by the gods, but by Shazam himself....should they all .....all 4 of the characters I mean be sharing from the same pool of powers?

7. Will Mordru, being atached to the rock of eternity make the marvels and Black Adam more powerful? By channeling his magical energy as well?



Give me your thoughts....

Here are some of my insights..not neccessarily asking the answering these questions.

I think if I was writing a Shazam title I would lose the gods. Just have them shout Shazam because it is the wizard who is powering them. Not a particular god set. It would make a whole lot more sense to me...seeing as how if a god set powered them....they really shouldnt all have the same power levels, seeing as how different gods have different power levels.

oh yeah one more question.

If Zeus as of right now..is not the lord over Mt Olympus..would Athena have taken over his role in the Quintessence?

please pass on your thoughts.
 
You live your life knowing you will die.

Doesn't that just rain on your parade.
Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005   gland is offline   #2
gland's Avatar
gland
Member

 
joined: Mar 2005
Location: NJ...Manhattan...it varies, so let's just say SVA
Posts: 24

Default

We talked about this on AIM already, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.


Post-Crisis, Billy Mary and Freddy all share the same "power pool". Meaning that Mary and Freddy just take a chunk of Billy's power. Meaning that it's one sextet of gods for all of em.

Adam's power came from a different pact with different Gods than Billy's so his power comes from a different sorce.

I don't think Shazam powers them himself because quite frankly he's not as powerful as the alternative. He's immortal, and he's a wizard, but he's also really really old, far past his prime.


As for the Teth/Theo thing...as I recall, Theo Adam found some relic (necklice) that awakened the soul of his ancestor Teth Adam within him. So when Theo Shazams, Teth comes out and assumes controll, since it was Teth and not Theo that was given the power. This is why Black Adam never powers down. Whereas the other Marvels just become idealized versions of themselves.
 
Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005   stephbarton is offline   #3
stephbarton's Avatar
stephbarton

 
joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,047

Default

wow, this is a doosey.

Ok, here goes (I really should be writing my paper right now)

1) Are CM3 and Mary really necessary?

Answer: to me, Yes. One I think it stinks to keep Billy around and forget to the other two members of the family, but I also think they add an intersting dynamic to Billy and can help the Marvels increase their presence through out the DCU.

One, CM3 is a different character than Billy, he was popular, great at sports etc. I think this could come across well if a writer wants to explore these issues. Furthermore, he is a teen when powered, so he can fit in with the Teen Titans real well (plus he was voted onto Jurgens team over Robin and Superboy). He can be a bit more reckless and inexperienced than Billy which opens up story possibilities.

Two, Mary adds something most heroes don't have, a sibling. I am always amazed at how many heroes are single children considering the avg family size in the U.S. is still two point something. I think having a sister adds to Billy's character and can add a lot of story telling potential (for example, what happens when she or Billy are in serious danger, how does the other react, esp. since they are pretty much all that's left of their family). Also, Mary serves a similar function as Freddy, she is not as experienced so if you want to deal with that issue you can use her.

Thirdly, I will hold out eternal hope that the Marvels will get their own monthlies so I want Freddy and Mary around and kicking for that.

Fourthly (is this a word?) I think it helps add the Marvels exposure in the DCU. Mary got a great guest spot in the last Supergirl book, CM3 is in Titans, CM in JSA. They all can fill different character roles thus they can be used in different books. I would never want to see CM in the Teen Titans, but I'm dying for Freddy to get a substantial guest spot. Also, I would love to see Mary in the JLA.

2) Power-sharing

Well, in the POS monthly series they all did share their powers, but many people did not like this idea. In the DC Encylopedia it stated that only CM3 and Mary power shared and that CM was always full powered. Power sharing has not been addressed since the end of Power of Shazam where it was introduced so there is no real explanation for what is going on with that. This question is more what the writer prefers.

3) Role of Shazam

Well, Shazam (as I see it) grabs the powers from the gods and sets up the power system at the beginning. He is needed to work the magic lightning (as seen in Genesis) but at the same time he has no concious control over the lightning (otherwise he probably would have robbed Adam of his power and he would fling the lightning down when the kids were in real trouble)

Shazam was not shown to be an old champion till recently (in the POS series) and I think the reason he was no longer champ was because he was old and tired. Plus technically Shazam is dead.

As for the gods, I see it as Shazam being able to pull these powers from the gods and such. For example, Zeus doesn't really have control over Shazam using his power to power Billy, either he trusts the wizard or the wizard was able to do magic that could take Zeus' powers without consent.

4) Black Adam taking over?
I don't see this, mostly because the wizard doesn't like Adam and Adam does not have the purity and in a way the wisedom of Billy. But I don't think this idea has ever been addressed before.

5) Teth or Theo Adam?

Ok, Teth turned evil (kinda sorta) and the wizard had to banish his power to this magical scarab. Well, couple thousand years later this thug, Theo Adam (who I think is a descendant of Teth's but I'm not sure) stumbles across the scarab. He is fascinated by it and kills C.C. and Maryilan Batson (Billy's and Mary's mom and dad) for it. Well, in Fawcett he is lead by the scarab to say the magic word "Shazam" and he gets the powers (and some of Teth's memories *i think, don't remember now* but he's not Teth)

Well, Billy beats him and the wizard turns him into a mute. Later he gets the power to speak again and again summons the powers. There he does evil and is kicked to some far star. While he is in space Teth's personality regains control. Teth's soul was swimming around in the river of the dead and the power managed to pull him back into the land of the living.

When Teth came to Earth, he was able to prove that he was different than Theo, in fact he had different fingerprints (so it's like he has a new body).

So Theo and Teth are two completly different people (who look exactly alike) and can both use the powers. I'm not sure what happens if Teth says the magic word, I think since the power is what brought him back he automatically reverts back to Theo yet Theo can access the magic without turning to Teth (hope this isn't too confusing)

Now to actually answer your question, Billy and Cap where never two seperate people ala Teth and Theo, meaning that a person who was Captain Marvel never existed before Billy came along. Hope that answered it.

6) They are powered by the gods, Shazam just gives them the means to access the gods power.

7) I don't think Mordu will have an effect on the Marvels. I don't recall anything really effecting how powerful they are except power sharing or the incapacity of the wizard, but never anything along the lines of "so and so is bleeding magic so they are affected". Like I said, I think Shazam just gives them the ability to tap into the gods, he (or the rock) doesn't actually control it.
 
Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005   gland is offline   #4
gland's Avatar
gland
Member

 
joined: Mar 2005
Location: NJ...Manhattan...it varies, so let's just say SVA
Posts: 24

Default

Though the Rock of Eternety is the conduit through which the gods power is funneled to the Marvels, and collected when not in use...so Mordru, powerful wizard that he is, being trapped in it could concievably amp up the power that flows through it to them.
 
Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005   FateFan is offline   #5
FateFan's Avatar
FateFan
Member

 
joined: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3

Default

Quote[/b] (gland @ April 18 2005,10:03 am)]Though the Rock of Eternety is the conduit through which the gods power is funneled to the Marvels, and collected when not in use...so Mordru, powerful wizard that he is, being trapped in it could concievably amp up the power that flows through it to them.
ddf
[b
Or use that to escape in about 1,000 years....
 
Hector Hall to Mordru:

I wield Chaos and Order. *I am all magick, both Black and White and I answer to no-one!
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   sda is offline   #6
sda's Avatar
sda
Supporters

 
joined: Feb 2002
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 1,448

Default

Quote[/b] (Guru @ April 17 2005,10:05 pm)]Are CM3 and Mary really necessary?

I know they give Billy supporting characters for his own title.

But he doesnt have his own title and i think they are cardboard characters.
ddf
[b
They each have different personalities, though. Saying they are no more than cardboard characters is like saying Superman, Superboy and Supergirl and all the same.... If so, then why do we need all of them, too?
 
I hear voices and they don't like you....
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   Brian LaBelle is offline   #7
Brian LaBelle's Avatar
Brian LaBelle
I teleported.

 
joined: Feb 2005
Location: Oil Country
Posts: 13,702

Default

Quote[/b] (sda @ April 18 2005,2:15 am)]
Quote[/b] (Guru @ April 17 2005,10:05 pm)]Are CM3 and Mary really necessary?

I know they give Billy supporting characters for his own title.

But he doesnt have his own title and i think they are cardboard characters.
ddf
[b
They each have different personalities, though. Saying they are no more than cardboard characters is like saying Superman, Superboy and Supergirl and all the same.... If so, then why do we need all of them, too?
ddf
[b
I think CM3 and Mary are more important to Captain Marvel than Kon and Kara are to Superman.

What do the rest of you think?



 
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   StarmanVII is offline   #8
StarmanVII's Avatar
StarmanVII
Advanced Geoffan

 
joined: May 2004
Posts: 592

Default

Hell Yes, I love the Marvel Family. Cap Jr and Mary are like Lois and Jimmy. If a Power of Shazam book does return, they are necessery part of it. It should be played as a team book, with Billy as the central figure.

I love their relationship!! I think I enjoy Mary and Freddy more than Billy sometimes. They are all great characters!
 
"The Life which is unexamined, is not worth living." - Plato(427BC-347BC)
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   TitansFan is offline   #9
TitansFan's Avatar
TitansFan
Titanic Horseman

 
joined: Jan 2004
Location: New York City (Manhattan), NY
Posts: 4,989

Default

I agree. *I think Mary and Freddy are essential to the Captain Marvel legacy. *I do wish they would have stories that showed their power fluctuations, however. *In the Power of Shazam series, it was established that all three of their powers come from the same pool. *So if any two of them are in Shazam form at the same time, they are at half power, and if all three of them are Shazam'ed, they are at a third. *Even if it's a JSA story that only features Billy, it'd be nice for continuity's sake to seem Marvel suddenly feel a power drain (and it show in the current fight he's in) or conversely for him to get an at of the blue power up. *Him, knowing of course that one of his 'family' just depowered....



 
"What kind of Superhero needs to wet himself every hour?" -- TTYO #2

Crazy Titans Fan!

"You have two choices...."

Proud New Yorker
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   Guru is offline   #10
Guru's Avatar
Guru
Member

 
joined: Jan 2005
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario Canada
Posts: 695

Default

See...thats why i dont like...So mary and Freddie have Pacts with Billy then. Thats why they draw from the same pool.

I was getting into this Gland over AIM, but why does Mary say Shazam if she draws from teh same pool of power....I know for a fact Freddies power is based on a pact with Captain Marvel, thats why he says Captain Marvel because he draws his power from him....but Mary is different.

And if she says Shazam and draws from teh same pool, why not Black Adam?
 
You live your life knowing you will die.

Doesn't that just rain on your parade.
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   TitansFan is offline   #11
TitansFan's Avatar
TitansFan
Titanic Horseman

 
joined: Jan 2004
Location: New York City (Manhattan), NY
Posts: 4,989

Default

As explained above, Black Adam's powers come from a different set of Gods...different pool

And what 'pact' are you talking about? Shazam granted Billy his powers and then Mary. That was enough until they begged him (Shazam) to give Freddy powers to save his life. The three dont have a pact together, and if they each are down to a third of their power because all of them are in their super form, that doesnt mean they're now weaklings. A fully powered Captain Marvel is Superman powerful. A third powered Captain Marvel is still a force to be reckoned with. I guess I just dont understand what point you're trying to make. ((And be careful with saying things like "I know for a fact"...especially in the DCU when origins/powers/explanations are changed and retconed continuously))
 
"What kind of Superhero needs to wet himself every hour?" -- TTYO #2

Crazy Titans Fan!

"You have two choices...."

Proud New Yorker
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   stephbarton is offline   #12
stephbarton's Avatar
stephbarton

 
joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,047

Default

Like I said before, most fans were upset with the power sharing and so it has not really been addressed outside the POS series. Furthermore the DC Encylcopedia was written to lead most (if not all) fans to believe that power-sharing only affected Mary and Junior (they didn't want to diminsih CM any).

Since this has not been explored in any actual DC book we don't have any explanation why Mary and Junior get drained but not Billy, but it seems power sharing has been retconned out, even if no one knows how.
 
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   imarriedsatanII is offline   #13
imarriedsatanII's Avatar
imarriedsatanII
Horseman of the Calypso

 
joined: Nov 2002
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,457

Default

And that's a retcon we can all gives thanks for.
 
"Something profound" - Me
Reply With Quote
Old April 18th, 2005   gland is offline   #14
gland's Avatar
gland
Member

 
joined: Mar 2005
Location: NJ...Manhattan...it varies, so let's just say SVA
Posts: 24

Default

Quote[/b] (Guru @ April 18 2005,7:15 am)]See...thats why i dont like...So mary and Freddie have Pacts with Billy then. *Thats why they draw from the same pool.

I was getting into this Gland over AIM, but why does Mary say Shazam if she draws from teh same pool of power....I know for a fact Freddies power is based on a pact with Captain Marvel, thats why he says Captain Marvel because he draws his power from him....but Mary is different.

And if she says Shazam and draws from teh same pool, why not Black Adam?
ddf
[b
Because, near as we can figure, the family got power through Billy's pact alone...and Adam got power through a seperate one.




I kind of like the power shairing though. It kinda gels with the concept of them being a family.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2000-2008 Comic Bloc All characters and titles are © by their respective owners.