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Old June 9th, 2015   TJLamb0518 is offline   #209
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AH Ok, I see where your coming from. But I don't really think of it in terms of . "will it be a blockbuster" or "will it have mass appeal" and not really "will the fans love it".
I ask is it a good story?
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So do I. As a [i]fan[/]. Putting on my pretend "studio executive" hat, I would think the first two HAVE to be a big concern. And they ar ethe ones backing, funding and making the films.

nearly all of the superhero films out so far that have been successful have been based on 15+ year old popular stories. of popular versions of the characters. I'm not saying the characters have to ape every line from the comics. but that there's a essence of these characters that often DON'T fit "popular" tropes, but work for them. That make them unique. that have made them engaging for decades.
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But "engaging" is a really sliding scale. Batman was almost cancelled (unthinkable!) until Adam West put on the cowl. Superman has (IMO) had a very difficult time finding his footing as a character ...well, SINCE the Donner films. Thor and Cap? Have had some great peaks over the years, but the valleys have been much deeper and much wider (seriously, we all know Thor has been on the bubble of cancellation a LOT). And Wonder Woman? I am truly sorry, but she is only part of the "trinity" because DC has told us all she is. Her sales have not warranted her any such distinction.

I have a good friend who loves comics and we go see all these superhero films together with our significant others. And you get 3 VERY differing viewpoints. I see the cinematic efforts as their own universe, so if the story is good and they got the basic core concepts right, I'm pleased (hence why I like the Story FF films...the core is right). Our significant others are in no way comic book readers so they go into these with zero baggage and take the films for what they are worth. Believe it or not, Winter Soldier was a little too steeped in comics lore for them (they didn't even remember who Bucky was until the story told them so THAT reveal was lost on them and yet they found the reveal of JGG as Robin in the DKR to be wholly satisfying because they knew who Robin was without all that backstory). My friend, God bless him, is a dyed in the wool comics fan who wants to see things play out somewhat similarly to their comic book history (I am still hearing about the X-Men line up and how that's not the original team and we won't even discuss organic webshooters here). What I'm saying is what involves my girlfriend may not engage me or my friend and various combinations of that statement, so I think they need to look at what will fill seats.

for example IMO the Only 3 characters that really worked in the X-men films were Prof X, Magneto, and wolverine. and they pulled from the motivations set up in the comics AND Prof X and Logan from the characterizations of the comics. the popular audiences GOT who they were as Unique persons and the fans recognized them as authentic to how they are portrayed and embraced in the comics for decades.
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Absolutely agree, but let's be fair....they were the 3 characters that the writers put any real effort into. Even Mystique was just "have her do this so we can do a cool effect".


In contrast Storm ,as nice as Haily Berry looks, they didn't give her STORM LIKE lines, or the bearing she'd had over the years in the comics. She came across as just some random woman with lighting powers.
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But...when a toad gets hit by lightning.......


so again i say, the Reed Richards Character --as developed in the comics for decades-- is what's needed to make the film WORK. If audiences get the character or LIKE him is another story. But to make a good or even POPULAR film IMO they can't just pop in a generic smart guy as the lead.
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Again, I kind of liked him in the Tim Story films. As did my girlfriend. To the point where I had to sit through a season of Forever because the actor was on it. I think he was stronger in the role than Evans was as Johnny (IMO). BUT the super smart, coming up with wacky things no one has ever heard of uber-scientist is a tough sell for a non comic reading audience. I'm not sure how aware you are of just how much comics have taught us to expand our thinking and understanding of things "outside the box".


[quote=1peace;1903095]
the same as the Capt America character in the films IS basically the guy from the comics. They didn't make him MORE cynical or jaded for the MODERN audience to relate to. They pulled from what made the character popular across the decades not just what sells books any given month. [quote=1peace;1903095]


Cap was a tough mountain to climb and they did it beautifully. Not a single solitary complaint in anything doing with MCU Cap.

I just feel that it is lightning in a bottle.


Same with this new Daredevil series. The characters personalities and drives from the comics over the decades are IN THERE, foggy nelson, Matt, Fisk. it's not aped but it's not really edited for assumed popular taste. I was kind of afraid they'd pull away from his Catholicism ..for popular consumption. but they left it there. It's good story. forget the current "religion" haters.
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To me, it seems like they are going to the same era of Daredevil that the film did, just doing it better. It's good, but DD was around a couple of decades before Miller got his hooks in him.


As you say Ben is fairly classic and will be fine as they've tried to do him in the past films, Johnny as well.
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Ehhhhhh......okay. Johnny was just comic relief to me. He was also an ass.


Sue needs the right actress and the Alba looks great But a young Helen Hunt could pull it off better. Or if i'm pulling from any time period, Grace Kelly. Both are strong, very feminine, sharp, and can play off a strong lead without getting lost under his shadow.
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I thought Leelee Sobieski (basically a young Helen Hunt) or even Sarah michelle Gellar may've been able to pull it off at that time.


So yeah whatever they do In the future I hope they pull it off. (this FF3 doesn't look like it) There's good base material in the FF if they want to make good movies. But if they want to make up NEW stuff then to me it's just the FF in name. why not just change like moore did with the watchmen and the carlton characters. similar to but NOT really. you can make cool stories with the the thin outline of the FF, but WHY there's already plenty of good stuff there. There's a reason that it's been selling for over 50 years.
And If you count the sales over THAT time period your looking at far better numbers.
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The problem is I know a good number of people who I grew up with and loved comics who haven't even gone to see a Marvel movie in the theaters (the old "I'll wait for it to be on cable" answer).
 
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Old June 9th, 2015   TJLamb0518 is offline   #210
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I dunno, for me the standard bearer for the 30s/40s light comedy/mystery detective characters is Warren William and Chester Morris compares well...but he's no Warren William. Even as abysmally un-Perry Mason as the movie series was, they're good Warren William light comedy/mysteries.

For sidekicks, William's longterm Jamison in the LONE WOLF films, Eric Blore, I think edges out George Stone's the Runt. But the Runt comes a close second. I did like the interplay of Morris-Stone and Lloyd Corrigan's Arthur Manleder though; it highlighted a couple of the early Morris Blackie films.
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I do like the Lone Wolf films (although they are rarer than hen's teeth to find) but I keep seeing him and thinking "that's the guy from the Wolf Man!". Plus, like you said, he was Perry Mason and I NEVER got into Perry Mason.
 
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Old June 9th, 2015   Amentep is offline   #211
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Yeah he totally is that guy from the Wolf Man.

Luckily one of those digital networks - GET TV - showed the Warren William and Gerald Mohr Lone Wolfs so I've seen most (if not) all of that part of the series now.

That said, Perry Mason is awesome. Love the 50s-60s TV series, liked the books and enjoyed the movies (albeit having to put aside all my knowledge of Perry Mason).
 
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Old June 9th, 2015   1peace is offline   #212
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So do I. As a [i]fan[/]. Putting on my pretend "studio executive" hat, I would think the first two HAVE to be a big concern. And they ar ethe ones backing, funding and making the films.
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true they are. but it's a crap shoot whatever they do. so why not push what you bought the franchise for. sames you'd do with any other book to film project. just becsue it's "comics" shouldn't automatically mean they should be compelled to spice it up or dum it down or plug in a luuuuv story. to get butts in the theaters, or make it as acessable as possible. but that just my own mindset not trying to 2nd guess the audience to much. but leaning more toward. the stories worked for decades, we bought it, lets run with it and see if it flies.

But "engaging" is a really sliding scale. Batman was almost cancelled (unthinkable!) until Adam West put on the cowl. Superman has (IMO) had a very difficult time finding his footing as a character ...well, SINCE the Donner films. Thor and Cap? Have had some great peaks over the years, but the valleys have been much deeper and much wider (seriously, we all know Thor has been on the bubble of cancellation a LOT). And Wonder Woman? I am truly sorry, but she is only part of the "trinity" because DC has told us all she is. Her sales have not warranted her any such distinction.
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this is true, they've all had there ups and downs but they've remained (WW not withstanding) very popular characters. even as their books stumbled from time to time they've remained fans favs. most fans will always vote for Cap and Thor on the avengers even if they didn't or wouldn't read there individual books. but as you say Cap and Thor have had great peaks that are LOVED with a passion. there's something there that WORKS, and comes back to work again and again.


I have a good friend who loves comics and we go see all these superhero films together with our significant others. And you get 3 VERY differing viewpoints. I see the cinematic efforts as their own universe, so if the story is good and they got the basic core concepts right, I'm pleased (hence why I like the Story FF films...the core is right). Our significant others are in no way comic book readers so they go into these with zero baggage and take the films for what they are worth. Believe it or not, Winter Soldier was a little too steeped in comics lore for them (they didn't even remember who Bucky was until the story told them so THAT reveal was lost on them and yet they found the reveal of JGG as Robin in the DKR to be wholly satisfying because they knew who Robin was without all that backstory). My friend, God bless him, is a dyed in the wool comics fan who wants to see things play out somewhat similarly to their comic book history (I am still hearing about the X-Men line up and how that's not the original team and we won't even discuss organic webshooters here). What I'm saying is what involves my girlfriend may not engage me or my friend and various combinations of that statement, so I think they need to look at what will fill seats.
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again my 1st thought isn't , "will non-geeks get it?" or will "fans be pissed if i change this or that detail?" I'm focusing on what makes Batman BATMAN? what makes Thor Thor etc etc. Grind that up and pour THAT GUY into a story derived from some rich portion of the 50-70 years of books and I suspect you'll have a winner.
But Sure, maybe all non-geeks can't go on this ride. Maybe some fans will have to live without Hela. But make a movie worthy of the property or they've wasted it IMO. The gold is there for the taking. if they didn't think the books were worth doing because of the books sales performances don't give them confidence in their mass appeal then just don't do the films. find something else more profitable to exploit.

concerning the Bucky reveal though. did the ladies see the 1st film? They never had to read one CAP comic. I've never read or seen a Twilight book or film but i bet if i only watched the 2nd film i'd miss things that carried over from the 1st. same with Harry pooter...Potter. never read or watch ANY. but I'd mis plenty if i only watch the last 2 films wondering why i didn't feel all the drama. so it's not really fair to say that CAPT went to far into the comic with Bucky.

Absolutely agree, but let's be fair....they were the 3 characters that the writers put any real effort into. Even Mystique was just "have her do this so we can do a cool effect".
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sure seems that way, but what they put into those 3 was comic based. not Wolverine being a cheap Eastwood or John McKlain.


But...when a toad gets hit by lightning.......
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:COUGH-HACK!: , see you're just wrong to bring that up. I may have lost some respect for you TJ


Again, I kind of liked him in the Tim Story films. As did my girlfriend. To the point where I had to sit through a season of Forever because the actor was on it. I think he was stronger in the role than Evans was as Johnny (IMO). BUT the super smart, coming up with wacky things no one has ever heard of uber-scientist is a tough sell for a non comic reading audience. I'm not sure how aware you are of just how much comics have taught us to expand our thinking and understanding of things "outside the box".
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well you know if they want to be safe and not try to push the envelope and Not see what can work sure, play it safe, dum it down, but again why buy the property that's worked for 50 years if you think it's not going to work now.
Plus Anytime you do a sci-fi or fantasy film you risk losing apart of the potential audience who just won't get certain things. In Lord of the rings they did things that i didn't like away from the books but it's still caught the real flavor of that full on Tolkien world. (not speaking of the hobbit flicks thanks). I'm guessing that some people didn't "get" some of the film.
And think about the Matrix when it 1st came out, half the people i know who say it the ...the !ST time didn't understand it. But i'm not so sure people would be that taken aback by Richards if he's played right. You don't show him inventing "wacky" things. but certainly if possible things people have never heard of. that's part of his draw. to go where no ones gone before. the adventure and danger of science on the edged.

In real life we have bill gates Steve jobs and Steven Hawking all incredible and singular in their own rights. In fiction and Sci-fi you have brilliant characters, "mad" scientist on a lower level you have McGyver man!! everyone bought McGyver... right... right?

Cap was a tough mountain to climb and they did it beautifully. Not a single solitary complaint in anything doing with MCU Cap.
I just feel that it is lightning in a bottle.
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See i never had a doubt they could do Cap... if they stuck with the comic character.
I felt they drop the ball a bit story wise in the 1st film. but character wise spot on.

To me, it seems like they are going to the same era of Daredevil that the film did, just doing it better. It's good, but DD was around a couple of decades before Miller got his hooks in him.
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yes he was But they pulled the best of the long history. I'm probably one of the few guys that actually bought daredevil books Pre-Miller. But without Miller's work i would not recommend a daredevil film or series.
the property just didn't have the gold in it to make it work JUST based on the what's there. maybe a one off but that's it.

anything can be made into a good film or book IMO. but to take a comic to film if the stories aren't their already, then they HAVE to build it from scratch almost.

I love the Inhumans as characters but they've yet to do a story that i've loved. I don't like Alpha flight, and the only character there i care about is Sasquatch. but as far as I know they don't have HOT storyline. 1 that fans in general look to and say "THAT Series blew me away!" I'm not talking about getting fan butts in movie seats so much as again a SOLID STORY and UNIQUE compelling characters.


Ehhhhhh......okay. Johnny was just comic relief to me. He was also an ass.
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yeah, That's sorta johnny. i remember in one book johnny went to spirderman to talk over a P.R. problem he was having as the press and all the woman had turned against him. And He said some something like "people have always hated you, i don't want to be like that!" Spiderman's reply was something like "why aren't you dead yet?"


I thought Leelee Sobieski (basically a young Helen Hunt) or even Sarah michelle Gellar may've been able to pull it off at that time.
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TJLamb0518 View Post
Leelee Sobieski, Helen Hunt hollywood Clone yeah that works too.


The problem is I know a good number of people who I grew up with and loved comics who haven't even gone to see a Marvel movie in the theaters (the old "I'll wait for it to be on cable" answer).
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yeah that happens too, moveis are a crap shoot.
But I'm sure it's the same for people who've read Clancy books and see Tom Cruises name in the credits.
 
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Old June 19th, 2015   1peace is offline   #213
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Stretch powers being really not funny.
a villain of the anime "Speed Grapher"
not for children or safe for work
It's the vid of the whole episode but the the only part to watch is from the 5.50 to 7 minute marks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiYWy6QSYmc
 
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Old July 9th, 2015   Elias is offline   #214
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Apparently Fox Wants Bryan Singer To Direct FANTASTIC FOUR 2 En Route To X-MEN Crossover
Could we see Bryan Singer shepard Fox's cinematic universe? That's the word on the geek-street anyway. A new report claims the plan is for Singer to take over from Josh Trank on Fantastic Four 2, and then helm that X-Men/FF crossover we've been hearing so many rumors about...
 
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Old July 9th, 2015   1peace is offline   #215
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it could be cool but after Xmen 1 and 2 they just pimpped out all the xmen men stuff. I got a kick out of bits and pieces but wolverine 1 2 3 where so so.
X-men 3 4 5 the same. but i kinda liked the Future past story. but they've just sapped all the life out of some of the best x-men stuff already imo.

If they can pull off a good FF then sure a cross over would be fun.
 
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Old August 6th, 2015   Elias is offline   #216
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Fantastic Four’s Behind-the-Scenes Drama: Fights, Reshoots, and a Disastrous Press Tour
Yes, the superhero blockbuster is a terribly mediocre film, but it was also Von Doomed from the start, plagued by vicious rumors, a licensing battle with Marvel, and reshoots.
 
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Old August 6th, 2015   Elias is offline   #217
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FANTASTIC FOUR Review: It’s Clobberin’ Time
The latest FF movie is way better than you expect.
 
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Old August 6th, 2015   Elias is offline   #218
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/film:
‘Fantastic Four’ Early Buzz: First Reviews Are Mostly Negative [Update]
 
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Old August 7th, 2015   starks is offline   #219
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They need to stop using Doctor Doom & use other villains, like the Frightful Four for example (pick whatever iteration, or pick the best ones for a movie).
 
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Old August 8th, 2015   OldCarSmell42 is offline   #220
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Just saw this today in the theaters. It was complete trash and bombed so badly. Worse yet is that the director of this hot mess REFUSES to take any blame for this movie's complete and utter failure.
 
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Old August 9th, 2015   Elias is offline   #221
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Default Fantastic Four 2015

Box Office: 'Fantastic Four' Flops With $26.2M, Loses to 'Mission: Impossible'



It's Been a Forgettable Year for the Fantastic Four
With a poorly reviewed movie and a canceled comic, 2015 hasn't been kind to Marvel's First Family.



Why did Fantastic Four director Josh Trank slam his own movie?
Honesty comes with a high price in Hollywood ... but what is the truth?



FAT MAN ON BATMAN #090: JOSH TRANK, PART 3
Aug 4, 2015 - In the studly Cave this week: Kevin and Josh Trank delve deep into finding the heart of the new Fantastic Four, in theaters August 7th. Part 3 of 4.




How Ant-Man Director Peyton Reed Fell Out With Fox Over Fantastic Four (Exclusive)
 
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Old August 10th, 2015   Jorge Galvan is offline   #222
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I have never been so EMBARRASSED or ASHAMED in my life than after watching this FKN Piece of $#!+


My god, i heard reviews were bad, but, after watching this, I left the Odeon all PISSED OFF and ready to beat the crap outta someone. Went out to a park and jogged three miles just to kool off!!!

Sorry, but I AM GONNA SPOIL IT, you DO NOT NEED TO SPEND YOUR MONEY ON THIS MANURE FEST!!

The film opens up in 2007 with a young Reed and Ben in the 5th GRADE!?!!! Apparently Reed is something of a genius and we learn that he has a STEPDAD, (No Nathaniel!) and later he wishes he was adopted!?!?!

We learn Ben and his family run a JUNK YARD (on Yancy street??) and his older brother is something of a bully and I for sure thought I saw a developing subplot, but for naught! One easter egg: Spotted a MENORAH on the counter!!


fast forward to 2014, and Ben and Reed are chatted up by Dr Franklin Richards and his adopted daughter SUE, who we later learn has a "European" background! (DOOM RELATED??).

we then meet Victor Von Doom, who the only good thing about his is that he is NOW the LEAD to PLAY FREDDIE MERCURY in the QUEEN Biopic, whenever they decide to do it!!!!


But I digress...



ANyway, they end up in another dimension, they get in trouble and they end up "hurt" and they lose DOOM! (sic).

They return to Earth and they all discover something is not right and then flash forward a year later and we learn that Ben is a WMD for the army (Which personally sicken me as it shows on the screen CONFIRMED 43 KILLS). and Johnny is NEXT in line for the same! Reed had taken a powder and had been missing for a year and then get pinched and is taken in!!

And I am so sick of talking about this $#!+. I dont wanna talk about it no more.

it's BAD. Trust me, it's bad...

You know Jack Kirby is rolling over in his grave, how does a FF film end up with bad language and MURDER????

Not only do I WANT my money back, I WANT the money SPENT to make this piece of $#!+ and I can make a better film than this.


The ROGER CORMAN film is WAR AND PEACE compared to this!!!

How the FCK could STAN LEE let this go out??? How could NO ONE at MARVEL say something??

I mean the fight scenes were even crap!!! and don't bother staying for any hidden scenes, there AREN'T any, thank god, for that!!!!

I can honestly look you in the face and tell you that this is without doubt the worst fkn movie Marvel has ever made/been involved with and I wanna find the director and screenwriter and just WALLOP the crap out of them for this film and for also NOT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for this!!!!
 
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Old August 10th, 2015   Amentep is offline   #223
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I was going to see this saturday and rolled out of bed realizing I didn't care.

Went to the comic shop instead and bought some comic boxes. Think it was time better spent from what I've heard.
 
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Old August 11th, 2015   Mr. Wrong is offline   #224
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SPECULATION WARNING!:

I haven't seen it, not gonna, but watching it fester and ooze out there in nerdom and the world beyond is hilariously tragic (tragically hilarious?)

Director Trank tweeted (and immediately yanked the tweet) that his version of the movie was radically different than what was released. Apparently the producer did a bunch of last minute re-shoots and completely re-cut the movie.

My guess: I think Trank's version was probably what we had been told to expect (not a superhero movie, not something fans of the comic would want/expect) earlier on in the process. I bet the studio panicked and decided it needed to be more of a standard superhero film and tried to shoehorn in elements more typical of the genre. Apparently the cut in theaters is very sloppy, with many things appearing to be setups for stuff that never happens in the movie.

Sounds like a bad mash-up. I wonder if Trank's version was a scifi movie called Fantastic Four, and the studio tried to make it a superhero movie at the last minute. It might have been a better movie if they had left it alone (though still not what fans of the comics would have wanted).
 
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