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View Poll Results: How would you rate Titans #13?
***** 1 3.45%
**** 0 0%
*** 7 24.14%
** 13 44.83%
* 8 27.59%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 13th, 2009   michealdark is offline   #33
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This was clearly editorially mandated, and neither writer's heart has gone into it at all.
 
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Old May 13th, 2009   DeTroyes is offline   #34
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I think the editors just wanted to come up with an epic, mind blowing mini-event for the Teen Titans books, something to blow everything else out of the water and attract new fans. But there were just too many cooks to make the stew palpable.

*sigh*

It really, really saddens me to see this.
 
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Old May 13th, 2009   hoyatables is offline   #35
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Actually the most depressing part is that we essentially already saw this story -- it's a combination of Graduation Day and the first arc of this volume of Teen Titans.

It's just not a good story.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   Wally West888 is offline   #36
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So I am just going to wait for the Cyborg and Tempest issues and the Fearsome Five arc and go from there yeah... here's hoping Geoff returns to Teen Titans.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   therealssjlink is offline   #37
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So I am just going to wait for the Cyborg and Tempest issues and the Fearsome Five arc and go from there yeah... here's hoping Geoff returns to Teen Titans.
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If that's what you are hoping for, don't keep your hopes up.

Your best chance is to just wait for Blackest Night: Titans.

If that does nothing for you, you may as well drop the title (which is what I might do now...but since I order my issues 3 months ahead I got stuck with this DT garbage..)
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   E2Brutus is offline   #38
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It's not looking good for the home team...

I had some real hope for this when I heard that McKeever & Wolfman were going to be writing it. Sean had been picking things up over at TT and Marv is...well, he's Marv Wolfman.

I forgot to factor in the editorial influence.

In fact, seeing how this story has bogged so badly, I'm beginningto rethink all the bad things I said about Winick earlier. Honestly, the difference between Titans #13 & Titans #3 is so minor I can only conclude that the "writers" had little to do with either book.

Combine that with the vague statements about the future & musical-chairs creative teams, and I think I'm out. As much as I love these characters I'm not doing them any favors by buying a book that sucks this badly.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   hoyatables is offline   #39
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Here's the problem -- I don't think there are really any new stories to tell with the "old" Titans group. There's no reason for them to get together, especially if there's another Titans team out there. Every attempt does the same thing:

- drags the members that have moved up (Nightwing, Flash, and now Arsenal) back to an artificial "we're not A-list" place.

- drags the members that have moved on (Gar, Vic, Kory) back to the "we're the second stringers to the 'not-A-list' Titans" place

- tries to confront the Donna Troy problem

- recycles and resuscitates old villains without any new spin (particularly Deathstroke/Jericho)

- tries to confront the Raven problem

All in all, they don't really tell new stories. To do it right you have to mix in some of the old with some of the new. That has, time and time again, proven to be successful:

1980 relaunch -- took some of the old Titans and added new Titans

2003 relaunch -- took some of the old New Teen Titans and added new Titans.

Completely recycling the old team or trying an all-new team, on the other hand, has proven to be unsustainable. See Jurgens' titans (which I otherwise really liked especially toward the end) and the Grayson Titans (which I liked at the beginning but never really established itself. The Winick Titans was DOA.

Look, I love it when they show the "core" Titans together. Nothing better than seeing Dick and Roy lean on Donna in a moment of Crisis. But they have all grown up, and we all probably need to as well.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   DeTroyes is offline   #40
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I disagree that the older Titans have outlived their viability as a team. If that were the case, then the X-Men should have been disbanded decades ago for the exact same reasons you cite.

What I do think is the problem is that the current spate of writers and/or editors spend too much time looking over their shoulders at the past, and let themselves become too dependent on it. That and a general climate at DC that has kept the Titans beholden to the vagaries of the Next Big Event. No writer can make any long term plans with the characters, because every time they turn around editorial is making a new demand to modify their story to accomodate something going on elsewhere.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   Roy Harper is offline   #41
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I disagree that the older Titans have outlived their viability as a team. If that were the case, then the X-Men should have been disbanded decades ago.

What I do think is the problem is that the current spate of writers and/or editors spend too much time looking over their shoulders at the past, and let themselves become too dependent on it. That and a general climate at DC that has kept the Titans beholden to the vagaries of the Next Big Event.
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Agreed, DeTroyes. We need new plots, new villains, new relationships, support cast, Titans like Leonid, Argent, Mirage, etc visiting them on the Tower. We need a good writer, an excelent artist and editors who cares about them.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   Joey Wilson is offline   #42
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Take a look at the magic that Morrison worked on JLA with the Big Seven.

There's no reason great, new Titans stories can't be told. Well, no reason other than heavy handed editorial and the wrong creative teams :P
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   Matches is offline   #43
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I disagree that the older Titans have outlived their viability as a team. If that were the case, then the X-Men should have been disbanded decades ago for the exact same reasons you cite.
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I think some would argue that the original X-Men have far outlived their usefulness. Clearly they still sell well, but even most X-enthusiasts would tell you that the main x-titles have had only a few good runs in the last few decades.

With the X-Men, at least, there's still an in-story reason why the characters are together and functioning as a team. They have a purpose that drives their stories, even if it's hackneyed. The older Titans haven't had that since the first time they beat Trigon.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   DeTroyes is offline   #44
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I think some would argue that the original X-Men have far outlived their usefulness. Clearly they still sell well, but even most X-enthusiasts would tell you that the main x-titles have had only a few good runs in the last few decades.

With the X-Men, at least, there's still an in-story reason why the characters are together and functioning as a team. They have a purpose that drives their stories, even if it's hackneyed. The older Titans haven't had that since the first time they beat Trigon.
ddf
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But the fact that Marvel has managed to keep the team together and to keep them selling is the important part. How has that happened? Because Marvel has seen to it that the book(s) get the attention they deserve, both in creative team assignments and place of prominence in the overall Marvel-U. Even when those creative teams misfired, they rarely did so in a way that failed to meet its readers (even minimum) expectations. The proof of this is that the titles are still healthy and viable, no matter how many times they regurgitate the same stories or how tired some fans are of certain characters.

The only time I've felt in the last few years that DC was willing to do the same for the Titans/Teen Titans was when Geoff Johns was writing the title - and look how well that series sold. Ever since then, its been a merry-go-round on the artists, and lately "just get whoever happens to be available" on the writers. And the titles have suffered because of it.

There is a huge reservoir of good will towards these characters. People want to read about them. It shouldn't be this difficult for DC to come up with a title that meets even low level of satisfaction. And it is infinitely frustrating that DC seems either unable or just unwilling to give this franchise the tools it needs to prosper, or the room it needs to grow.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   balder is offline   #45
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Here's the problem -- I don't think there are really any new stories to tell with the "old" Titans group. There's no reason for them to get together, especially if there's another Titans team out there. Every attempt does the same thing:

Look, I love it when they show the "core" Titans together. Nothing better than seeing Dick and Roy lean on Donna in a moment of Crisis. But they have all grown up, and we all probably need to as well.
ddf
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You're kidding right?

There's plenty of stories to tell about with the old Titans group.
Plenty.

A few stories/plot devices that haven't been used with the Titans:
  • Body/mind swap. (What chaos could Gar do in Starfire's body? How well could Donna fool others while in Nightwing's body?)
  • Time Travel/history change (How much of a change to the current would would happen if the original 5 didn't get together? Really, think about it. Start with just Roy not being there.)
  • stopping the alien invasion of the week (the JLA can do it, so can the Titans)
  • Alternate universe versions come to visit. (and they don't want coffee)


Plus individual stories? What would happen if Nightwing found an original version of Cyborg's plans from before the tower blew up during Titans Hunt? What would a bachelor party for Garfield be like? What happened to Sharon Tracy? What if Donna couldn't regain a normal identity?


There are plenty of stories to tell. There are two problems.
1. Getting someone on the inside to listen to the ideas.
2. Getting the editor/in-chief out of the way to allow the stories to be told.



I've thought about this waaaaaay too much. 4 pages of story "solicitation" blurbs/ideas too much.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   MrsCheeksTheToyWonder is offline   #46
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Default They won't do it, of course, but still...

Here's the problem -- I don't think there are really any new stories to tell with the "old" Titans group. There's no reason for them to get together, especially if there's another Titans team out there.
ddf
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I don't agree that there are no new stories to tell, but I do think that the older Titans don't have a real reason to come together as a team these days. I think that the editors should take one of two routes with the title:

(1) Do what Marvel is doing with X-Men Forever, and tell stories set in the past -- pre-Titans Hunt, when the team was still strong, and possibly even pre-Terror of Trigon. Granted, it means sticking with only the characters who were on the team at the time, and it means no one can get killed (oh, what a shame! </sarcasm>), but at least there wouldn't be all the problems inherent in getting the Titans together these days. And we wouldn't be seeing team members used as villains every friggin' issue.

(2) Use the Titans as they are now, but as a series of solo or semi-team stories. Have a Vic & Gar arc, a Kory & Raven arc, a Roy solo arc, etc. That way, we're still seeing all the Titans, but we don't have to try and shoe-horn them into a standard team setting -- and even better, we don't have to see idiot plots where the Titans come off as dopes to try and make lame adversaries (Vigilante) seem more badass.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   Matches is offline   #47
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But the fact that Marvel has managed to keep the team together and to keep them selling is the important part. How has that happened? Because Marvel has seen to it that the book(s) get the attention they deserve, both in creative team assignments and place of prominence in the overall Marvel-U. Even when those creative teams misfired, they rarely did so in a way that failed to meet its readers (even minimum) expectations. The proof of this is that the titles are still healthy and viable, no matter how many times they regurgitate the same stories or how tired some fans are of certain characters.
ddf
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That seems circular to me. No one would dispute that the X-Men sell well, but I'd posit that's because there are a very large number of people who will buy the X-Men comic no matter how badly it sucks, because they liked the book when Claremont & Byrne were on it. I see your point that the Titans franchise has some similar Wolfman/ Perez goodwill - and I see the evidence of that in the fact that DC has a viable Titans title right now even though no one particularly seems to enjoy it.

The complaint I hear from folks isn't "man I wish there was a Titans title", it's "man I wish the Titans title was actually good" - in which case the X-Men probably aren't the best comparison point because, with occasional exceptions, their books have been critical duds for quite awhile. Mention Chuck Austen to an Uncanny X-Men reader and then make sure you duck.

DC doesn't really have very many high-profile creators right now, comparatively speaking, for reasons that we can only speculate. So it's not all that surprising that there really aren't any on the Titans franchise. Whoever DC does eventually put on the book, though, whether they're low-profile, high-profile, whatever, is going to have to answer the question - what exactly is left to say about this group? Why are they still a group? The answer's going to have to be something beyond "because they're really good friends", because that's just not the kind of glue that will hold the series together. I'd suggest that the failure of anyone associated with the title to answer that question in a meaningful way has been one of the huge pitfalls in dealing with this particular group of characters, really since Perez left.
 
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Old May 14th, 2009   Doug Zawisza is offline   #48
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"Deathcrap". Wow. That sucked.
 
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