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Old June 20th, 2013   darthlucifuge is offline   #257
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I am going to see it again this weekend or next.
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Seeing it again tomorrow.
 
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Old June 20th, 2013   Eric Q is offline   #258
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Seeing it again tomorrow.
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Rewatched it on Tuesday, holds up pretty well.
 
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Old June 21st, 2013   superfriend is offline   #259
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there needs to be a bit more levity, a bit more gaiety in Man of Steel 2 or else it's going to be a very mopey time for Sad Cinema Superman.

perhaps the Clark Kent at the Planet will be some fun times. this is the only conceivable break i can see for Kal as he'll be able to adopt a different identity and with it some bifuraction (almost split personality) to get some joy.

because if he's going to take the whole killing thing seriously he's going to be very mopey for a very long time.

aha! unless they do the whole "...8 years have passed" kinda thing. then you can have a Superman that's gotten past all of the crying-into-his-pillow-before-he-goes-to-sleep-at-night/waking up from nightmares/writing shitty poetry scenes.

i get the interpretation. i know what Nolan does/did with Batman and how he's applying it to Superman, more or less. i mean, it's what he's WFH to do. and i see Snyder and Goyer for what they are--and the people at DCE who loved it and pushed for it. i just don't happen to think it makes for very good Superman material at all and i didn't think this movie was all that special in its own right either.

damn i was all set to like this movie. i was even going to overlook Perry White being shuffled off the mortal coil in the comics only to have his long lost Black son emerge to take over the mantle of the EiC at the Daily Planet. the Jenny Olsen thing...i got nothin.
 
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Old June 21st, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #260
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This article sums up my "issues" with the movie perfectly:

COMICS ALLIANCE:

Choice And The Moral Universe Of 'Man Of Steel ' [Opinion]
 
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Old June 21st, 2013   5andman is offline   #261
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James Franco on Henry Cavill:

What Henry took seriously back then was Superman. He wanted to be Superman more than anything in the world.
ddf
The night of the premiere I saw Henry from afar on the red carpet and knew this was the moment his whole life had been building toward. His dream had come true, and I was happy for him.
ddf
Henry Cavill makes a great Superman.
Planning to see it again and again...



http://www.vice.com/read/man-of-steel-the-super-movie
Last edited by 5andman; June 21st, 2013 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Link
 
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Old June 21st, 2013   Scott Mateo is offline   #262
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This article sums up my "issues" with the movie perfectly:

COMICS ALLIANCE:

Choice And The Moral Universe Of 'Man Of Steel ' [Opinion]
ddf
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"If you see a man flying through the sky, don't gasp and point in awe. Scream and run for cover. No-one can save you now."

That pretty much sums it up, yeah.
 
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Old June 21st, 2013   Eric Q is offline   #263
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SPOILERS


SPOILERS


SPOILERS



The original script to Man of Steel didn't include Superman killing General Zod to save an innocent family from incineration. In that draft, Zod was sent back into the Phantom Zone and that was that. It was Snyder who pushed for Supes to kill the movie's big villain, because the hero's "aversion to killing [was] unexplained."

Snyder's got a point. How are you going to know whether you like killing or not unless you try it? Anyway, Goyer was immediately on-board with the idea, but Nolan initially balked, even checking with DC Comics to see if the publisher would even sign off on its superhero icon ending a life, even the life of a mass murderer. DC didn't mind.

Read More: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2013/0...#ixzz2WuPkbAGs
ddf
He could have been referring to killing as option rather than the act of it.

Choice And The Moral Universe Of 'Man Of Steel' [Opinion]

Hope gets a mention. We're told the symbol on Superman's chest represents "hope," but I can't think of any moment in the movie that shows us that ideal. The characters standing in the wreckage at the end of the movie seem to represent grim endurance rather than hope. We do see a glimpse at the end of the movie of young Clark Kent playing outside with a cape around his neck. That seems hopeful. But as it's a moment from his past, before everything went to hell, it also suggests that hope is naive.
ddf
I saw the ending as a moment that emphasizes hope. He takes a position at the Daily Planet to do better, achieve more alongside somebody he loves and trust.

Superman is not a hero in this movie; he's a liability. This is a movie where everyone would have been better off -- and thousands more people would be alive -- if Superman had never come to our planet. It's hard to see that as a message of hope.
ddf
Unusual reasoning, it's like blaming a criminal's target because a bystander got hurt in the crossfire.

If the filmmakers had written it so that Zod had always meant to target Earth, and Jor-El sent his son to stop him, that would place an act of heroism at the story's core, rather than acts of desperation and revenge. It would make Superman a solution, not a problem. The rest of the story would play out largely the same way, but events would have moral weight. The filmmakers chose to go a different way.
ddf
But then you take away one of the fundamental aspects of Clark, that he chooses to be Superman.

One of the great pillars of Superman's moral universe is his adoptive father, Jonathan Kent. This movie removes him from that role. In most tellings, Clark Kent learns his values from his decent and upstanding parents. In this movie his father teaches him to lie. He teaches him to put self-preservation ahead of the lives of others. There is no truth and justice here. There is a sacrifice, but it's not heroic; Pa Kent dies because he's too stubborn to see that he's wrong. We know that he's wrong, because the premise of Superman depends on it. Pa Kent could have been a moral guide; the filmmakers chose to go a different way.
ddf
I disagree, he's a father, his main concern is his child. Obviously, Jonathan doesn't want Clark to stop doing good things but he is afraid of the negative possibilities of those acts. That Clark will be revealed, that someone will come to harm of exploit him. And since the authorities were so willing to give up Kal to Zod, Jonathan's fears weren't unfounded.

Because the Kents don't tell Clark to be a hero, it's not instilled in him as a value, and he has to take the counsel of his birth father, ghostly Microsoft Word paperclip Jor-El. In choosing to root Superman's virtue in Krypton and not Earth, the filmmakers stole Superman's formative reason for holding humanity up as worthy of salvation. This origin story does not at any point present the idea that mankind is fundamentally good. The filmmakers chose to go a different way.
ddf
I can't remember exactly, so correct me if I'm wrong. But wants him to be a child of Earth and Krypton, to be a bridge between the two races.

There's young Lana who defends Clark, Pete keeping Clark's secret, the Coast Guard and fishermen helping with a rescue, Perry and Lombard trying to rescue Jenny

This Superman is never virtuous. He is never compassionate or conscientious.
ddf
He risks exposure to save his classmates, Oil rig workers, holds Lois' hand when he cauterizes her wound, asks a soldier if he is okay after falling out of a plane.

Rather than travel the world looking for people to save, he is a withdrawn recluse who saves people only when they're about to burn to death in front of him. He literally does the least one might expect from a person with his extraordinary advantages. He can't be a hero, because he's bound to the self-preservation code of Jonathan Kent, his other father in the sky, forever whirling overhead somewhere between Kansas and Oz.
ddf
This is a world where superheroes don't exist before him. There is no guidebook for him, he doesn't know what to do so it takes him longer to become a superhero.

But if you want Superman to be an inspirational figure, I would be surprised if this was your Superman.
ddf
This is a Clark where he doesn't have all of the answers, someone who doesn't have everything easily come to him. But in despite of that, he is doing the best he can and he keeps trying.


This film is not without its flaws but I feel like this article misses some points.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   Scott Mateo is offline   #264
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I saw the ending as a moment that emphasizes hope.
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Last edited by Scott Mateo; June 22nd, 2013 at 06:06 AM.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   Alan is offline   #265
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The allies killed 60,000 French civilians around D-day. Was it still worth invading? Even France would agree it was.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   JRM is offline   #266
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The allies killed 60,000 French civilians around D-day. Was it still worth invading? Even France would agree it was.
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Umm - real life vs fiction. We don't have near gods roaming the earth. It was a creative choice and clearly for some it worked and others it did not; however, trying to justify it by and apples and oranges defense actually weakens your argument.

Perhaps the question is within the context of a meta-human what does the words "Hero" and "heroism" mean? This is the real crux of the debate going on here. Using your argument more effectively would be, we call soldiers heroes and they have to kill. Would it be still okay for supersoldiers against regular civilians? Don't know - but at least it is a clearly debatable topic.

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Old June 22nd, 2013   anthony_lynch15 is offline   #267
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LMAO.
Hilarious pic!
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   darthlucifuge is offline   #268
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I like the movie and no biased and over reactionary images are going to change that.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   Mr. Wrong is offline   #269
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I like the movie and no biased and over reactionary images are going to change that.
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I don't think anyone is trying to say you shouldn't like the movie. I think many are trying to explain why they didn't, and are then being told they're full of crap for having a real issue with SPOILER. Highlight below text to read
Superman as a killer

 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   Werehunter is offline   #270
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I take it then that you don't like Superman in the comic, he's done something similar in a comic story back in the 90s. Though in that story is was a well thought out action instead of something in the heat of the moment.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   Scott Mateo is offline   #271
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I don't think anyone is trying to say you shouldn't like the movie. I think many are trying to explain why they didn't, and are then being told they're full of crap for having a real issue with SPOILER. Highlight below text to read
Superman as a killer

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Well said.
 
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Old June 22nd, 2013   Terry Sloane is offline   #272
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Yeah, because the world would have better off if Zod did what he wanted and farm boy had stayed in Kansas shucking corn. I liked the fight scenes - it finally brought to the screen what would happen if two super-powered god-like people fought. No fight scenes hidden in the sewers. No sky ballet. War with the world at stake.

The ending is supposed to be a little gray, but the good guys won. If you don't think there will be any repercussions from all the damage, you aren't thinking sequels. You don't get how the destruction may have teed it up for Luthor. I think he will campaign to keep the world safe from super-aliens. Oh, and he'll get your vote.
Last edited by Terry Sloane; June 22nd, 2013 at 10:37 AM.
 
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