Interview of Judd Winick Re: Trials of Shazam! (Issue #2 Spoilers)

[CAPTAINSUPERMARVLMAN]

Just to clarify for others, 3/4th of what you're posting here was NOT in the interview, and I will correct the Apollo/Atlas mistake. Judd just happened to not recall all of the names off the top of his head while he was trying to make a point..it happens. He's human.

John Hays

I never said that it was in this particular interview. I base what I've said upon this and previous interviews. The only thing I even mentioned from the interview was the Apollo comment and my question to you is did he really forget or was it a slip of the tongue revealing a yet to be mentioned change. He claims to be a fan of the Marvel Family and I really don't think a fan would forget what is basic to the mythos. Just my opinion, don't light the torches

[Danny B]

Let me just say that after two issues I find THE TRIALS OF SHAZAM! to be a very intriguing read. During the Silver Bullet interview, I was disappointed when Winick stated Black Adam will not be appearing in this series. I'm not really up on my Captain Marvel lore, so could someone tell me if Adam's power is also derived from Shazam's magic? If so, he should be powerless as well.

[Mario]

I'm starting to wonder about that. He wasn't depowered when the wizard died, nor was he simply stripped of the power when he went rogue.

Of course, it's also possible that the reason he's not showing up is tied to his arc in 52...

[Danny B]

Of course, it's also possible that the reason he's not showing up is tied to his arc in 52...

Mario

Provided TRIALS OF SHAZAM! and 52 continue on schedule that'd mean 52 will wrap up before SHAZAM!. That would then free Adam to be used for the last few issues of the series. I'm really hoping we do see him despite what Winick says.

What do you guys think of Freddie potentially taking on the name "Shazam"? I think the true reason for it is simple: The general public thinks Captain Marvel's name IS Shazam. When I was growing up I always thought that was his name. Didn't really know that it was the name of the Wizard. Also, the name Captain Marvel cannot be used on the cover of any DC Comics because of Marvel Comics copyrighting the name (those snakes). So this would pave the way for a new series simply titled SHAZAM!.

[John Hays]

The general public thinks Captain Marvel's name IS Shazam.

Danny B

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Most people I've ever talked to have known him as Captain Marvel. They just know that he SAYS Shazam.

[Danny B]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Most people I've ever talked to have known him as Captain Marvel. They just know that he SAYS Shazam.

John Hays

I'm just basing my comment of my life experiences with the character and the non-comic fans around me.

[Mario]

Provided TRIALS OF SHAZAM! and 52 continue on schedule that'd mean 52 will wrap up before SHAZAM!. That would then free Adam to be used for the last few issues of the series. I'm really hoping we do see him despite what Winick says.

Danny B

Assuming he survives.

What do you guys think of Freddie potentially taking on the name "Shazam"?

Will he EVER get a codename he can actually say aloud?

[Danny B]

^LOL...so true, about the codename Mario. How would this be for a switcheroo: A guy named Shazam shouting "Captain Marvel!"? It may happen.

[Amentep]

^My guess (and I could be entirely wrong about this) is that since Freddy's trials seem to be built around connecting the dieties that make up the SHAZAM acronym that we'll see Freddy either (a) called Captain Marvel and using "Shazam!" to transform, or (b) called Shazam and using "Shazam!" to transform. I bet more on the former than the latter.

Billy probably won't be called "The Wizard Shazam" in the case of (b) but maybe just "The Wizard"; but since I'm guessing that Freddy is going to be CM, that Billy will be Shazam and won't be transforming back to Billy.

[John Hays]

(b) called Shazam and using "Shazam!" to transform. I bet more on the former than the latter.

Amentep

That would be pretty tricky, wouldn't it?

"What's your name?"

"I can't tell you."

"Oh, elitest huh? Yeah, I know your type! Well that's just fine! We don't need you anyway!"

"No, I mean....never mind."

[Amentep]

That would be pretty tricky, wouldn't it? "What's your name?" "I can't tell you." "Oh, elitest huh? Yeah, I know your type! Well that's just fine! We don't need you anyway!" "No, I mean....never mind."

John Hays

But that's was Freddy's thing before anyhow. Transforms via "Captain Marvel" name was "Captain Marvel Junior"

But I agree that its unlikely they'd do that AGAIN!

[Nightwing826]

Yeah, they can't do that. I am hoping later, he decides he needs to be called Captain Marvel and call out Shazam. But then if they leave him as Shazam, he can get his own book.

One thing is, on the DCU Infinite Christmas special, it says Shazam will be in it and it shows Billy? Plus Didio said "New Captain Marvel" a while back. I feel its getting messed up, though I loved the book.

My main problem is the ages, Billy is older then 15, he should be close to 17 or 18. Freddy should be 18 turning 19, those two were either in the same grade in HS or a year apart Freddy being ahead. NO WAY, Freddy would of been in COLLEGE and even if he was he wouldn't be close to graduating. He would have to be about 20 to get atleast an Associates. Please this was the worst part for me, especially if you look at the first page, they are so close to looking the same age as well as when they talked Freddy talked as if they were equals not someone younger.

[avathar476]

John-- I really did like the interview. It was well-done and fleshed out Winnick's approach to his books in general as well as to the new series. (1) I agree Judd has a direction for the book but it's not a direction for Captain Marvel. It's a direction for Judd's new character. Imagine if you take the simple concept of Superman -- an alien from another planet sent to earth and fighting for truth justice and the American way . . . but, to spice things up, because the character is REALLY stale. . . you make him part of an alien invasion force, a genetic experiment gone awry and an underground freedom fighter for true American values in an America that has forgotten them in its mindless quest to merge fascism with capitalism. You might have a GREAT comic, but you wouldn't have Superman. Not even close. You'd have Marvel's new Supreme Power & Hyperion. (2) I also disagree with your second point. I was very pleased with Captain Marvel's portrayal in the DCU until this series. I wasn't pleased that he did not have a title. I wanted a title. Not a new character. Jerry Ordway, IMO, brilliantly recreated Captain Marvel in the DCU (not the original Fawcett character by a long shot). reworked old chestnuts like Uncle Dudley and Tawky Tawny and placed innocent Billy Batson in a world with more grays. Yet Billy never lost his focus. Alex Ross also captured the essential Captain Marvel in Shazam: Power of Hope and Justice IMO. The JSA book and Cap's interaction with Stargirl and Black Adama were an interesting addition to Captain Marvel's stories because it expanded on how his powers and personality would interact with others. Why is it that Johns' extrapolations of Cap's powers seemed natural and Winnick's seem intrusive? Some of it may be skill, some of it may be concept. It's a short step from saying the courage of Achilles includes the power to encourage others or that the Wisdom of Solomon helps inform the choices of a sixteen year old boy. It is a vastly different thing to strip the underpinnings of Cap's powers away and make them ineffable concepts and to make a sixteen year old boy gibber like a maniac in 52 and put his best friends through a "trial" of any sort. Billy's brief romance with Stargirl showed us the responsible Billy is not an uncaring or unfeeling Billy. Also, the development of Black Adam as DC's most interesting villain is also, in part, the tale of Billy's continued sense of hope and optimism -- essential elements of Captain Marvel -- in the face of cruelty, oppression, and self-centeredness. Compare Billy to his sister Mary. Mary uses the power of Solomon differently. She is always pragmatic and down-to-earth. she bets the middle. Billy uses it to figure out the long odds that might work. Might. Captain Marvel over in Justice can give hope even to Wonder Woman and Superman, DC's icons. Why? Because he's just a kid at heart. He's a hero because he's just a kid at heart. Do you see that yet in Winnick's new tale? He may be writing a great series (personally I see some merit in it--I don't want to bash it as written work necessarily), but is it Captain Marvel? Or the Supreme Power version of Captain Marvel? Do we want the power of hope? Or the mysticism of power? Is the world's mightiest mortal the hero whose just a kid at heart? Or is the world's mightiest mortal a kid who gets some magic powers? They SOUND like the same thing, but they really aren't.

bgztl

I don't think Judd's ruining the character so to speak. This is just my opinion but i think he is just making the concept of the character stronger and eliminating what he deems as silly elements that prevent the character from progressing and taking an active role in the DCU. Certainly making one panel appearances and having fisticuffs with Supes is not helpful in his growth as a character. The JSA issues with him and Power of Hope were nice but we need something to make him different from Superman.

Just because they will be entrenched in the magical realm from now on doesn't mean that they will only fight demonic baddies. They will still battle threats of every sort. The magical baddies and orientation is just a way of defining them and making them stronger.

[avathar476]

Yeah, they can't do that. I am hoping later, he decides he needs to be called Captain Marvel and call out Shazam. But then if they leave him as Shazam, he can get his own book. One thing is, on the DCU Infinite Christmas special, it says Shazam will be in it and it shows Billy? Plus Didio said "New Captain Marvel" a while back. I feel its getting messed up, though I loved the book. My main problem is the ages, Billy is older then 15, he should be close to 17 or 18. Freddy should be 18 turning 19, those two were either in the same grade in HS or a year apart Freddy being ahead. NO WAY, Freddy would of been in COLLEGE and even if he was he wouldn't be close to graduating. He would have to be about 20 to get atleast an Associates. Please this was the worst part for me, especially if you look at the first page, they are so close to looking the same age as well as when they talked Freddy talked as if they were equals not someone younger.

Nightwing826

This thing regarding their actual ages confuses me as well. All i know is that Freddy is older than Billy and Mary by a year or two.

[Amentep]

I don't think Judd's ruining the character so to speak. This is just my opinion but i think he is just making the concept of the character stronger and eliminating what he deems as silly elements that prevent the character from progressing and taking an active role in the DCU.

avathar476

Like Uncle Marvel (who never appeared post-Crisis) or the Lieutenant Marvels (who again, never appeared post-Crisis)? What "silly elements" really existed that prevented the character from "progressing and taking an active role in the DCU"? Talky Tawny and Hoppy are about as weird as post-Crisis Shazam! characters go, and Tawny at least has a fairly reasonable explaination (I'm blanking on Hoppy's atm).

I know Winnick has played this up in interviews, and I've never understood his reasoning there either.

Certainly making one panel appearances and having fisticuffs with Supes is not helpful in his growth as a character. The JSA issues with him and Power of Hope were nice but we need something to make him different from Superman.

Not to be unfair, but isn't being a 14-16 year old boy who becomes the worlds most powerful mortal with a single magic word automatically different from being a 35 year old alien from another planet who masquerades as a mild-mannered reporter and is married to another reporter?

Maybe its just me but the idea that Captain Marvel needs to be "made different" from Superman seems...well...silly. He's almost automatically different from Superman, just by basic nature alone.

[John Hays]

Makes you wonder why DC even thought they had a legal case against Captain Marvel, eh?

BTW, apparently Billy will now simply go by Marvel and Freeman will go by Shazam. Go figure.