The Comic Bloc Forums

Go Back   The Comic Bloc Forums > General Talk > DC Comics

DC Comics Metropolis, Gotham, Coast City, Opal City, Smallville and other points East.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 20th, 2006   hotrod77 is offline   #1
hotrod77's Avatar
hotrod77
Member

 
joined: May 2005
Posts: 24

Default Johns Confirms Hippolyta was a member of the JSA

Geoff has finally cleared up the status of Hippolyta in the JSA (not to mention who does and doesn't remember the multiverse). Here's his post in the Dale Eaglesham interview at Newsarama.com:

Actually, the only one who remembers events like that is Power Girl.

Everyone on the JSA, from Earth 2, have vague recollections that there was a multiverse but that's it. DCU history is nearly identical to what it was.

Why is Power Girl the only one with real Earth 2 memories will be explained in Justice Society of America. I think some confusion has come from interpretation of interviews more than the comics themselves.

Hippolyta was a member of JSA, Matrix Supergirl did exist, Etc.

Geoff
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   holo2 is offline   #2
holo2's Avatar
holo2
Advanced Geoffan

 
joined: Jan 2004
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 2,039

Default

YES! I really liked this retconn. I know that alot of people had issues with John Byrne's run on Wonder Woman. I personally liked it. I liked the nod that he gave the JSA and I enjoy the fact that this is still the case. Great news!
 
"You have obstructed us for now, but your feeble bid to save humanity will fail! Hail Xenu!!!"
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   aflahive is offline   #3
aflahive's Avatar
aflahive
Advanced Geoffan

 
joined: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,004

Default

not sure if this is a confirmation, or him giving examples of things that have been cast into confustion in fans heads due to the interent
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   GLJeans is offline   #4
GLJeans's Avatar
GLJeans
Geoffan

 
joined: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana and the Philippines
Posts: 497

Default

I liked this retcon too... Hippolyta, can't rember when you weren't there, but it's great to have you back!

Now is it still Wonder W0man at the beginning of the JLA or Black Canary? Is this covered in the ect. or what?
 
Who among the world of strangers will hold our hand, touch our hearts, and share the pain of trying.
Heroes, season finale 2007.

GLGypsy.
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   Rajah1 is offline   #5
Rajah1's Avatar
Rajah1
Geoffan

 
joined: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 538

Default

It sounds like a confirmation to me but I suppose those last lines could be misleading. I was also a fan of this retcon so I hope I'm interpreting those comments correctly. Hippolyta made a great Golden Age Wonder Woman. And since Infinite Crisis didn't bring back the Multiverse (which I think would have been a mistake after all these years but that's just me), I'm cool with Polly retaining that role.

GLJeans, it seems to be Wonder Woman as a League founder, as of Brad Meltzer's JLofA #0. That's one the confirmed tweaks to history.
 
--Eric Lindberg
Comics Review Editor
www.brokenfrontier.com
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   Kane_fan is offline   #6
Kane_fan's Avatar
Kane_fan
Flamebird..A hero reborn!

 
joined: Mar 2006
Location: California
Posts: 720

Default

What I interpret is that Geoff is giving examples of confusions from interviews. It doesn't sound like he confirms anything.

I'm on the side of Bryne making too many mistakes with the Wonder Woman series. Hippolyta as the golden age Wonder Woman was a horrible mistake IMHO.

As JSofA starts up I'm sure will know for sure which, if any, Wonder Woman particpated in the JSofA.
 
Bette Kane is Flamebird.....except no substitutes! Of course, if they call her Bat-Girl, then that's okay. :)
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   Patrick Gerard is offline   #7
Patrick Gerard's Avatar
Patrick Gerard
Geoffan

 
joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 982

Default

While I think Geoff is saying that these things still happened...

... I'm gonna say, as I have before, that Matrix needs a new origin story.

The Pocket Universe story is tied to a version of the Legion that's three to four reboots old.

And Zod is about to get revamped again.

It's bad enough that Superman met at least two alternate universe Supergirls before the "real" one but the same is essentially true with Zod.

Please don't let a love of past stories clutter up the DCU.

I'd really, REALLY encourage Geoff and DC to retell Matrix's origin in a way that hits the same or similar emotional beats without cluttering things up with a Pocket Universe (which has no reason to exist) or an extra Zod.

I'm not saying that Linda Danvers or the earthborn angels or shapeshifting Matrix need to be erased but I think they desperately need to be contextualized without the Time Trapper or the pre-Crisis Legion being part of that backstory.
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   Human Bong is offline   #8
Human Bong's Avatar
Human Bong
Pay Attention 2 Me

 
joined: Feb 2002
Location: California
Posts: 4,913

Default

While I think Geoff is saying that these things still happened...

... I'm gonna say, as I have before, that Matrix needs a new origin story.

The Pocket Universe story is tied to a version of the Legion that's three to four reboots old.

And Zod is about to get revamped again.

It's bad enough that Superman met at least two alternate universe Supergirls before the "real" one but the same is essentially true with Zod.

Please don't let a love of past stories clutter up the DCU.

I'd really, REALLY encourage Geoff and DC to retell Matrix's origin in a way that hits the same or similar emotional beats without cluttering things up with a Pocket Universe (which has no reason to exist) or an extra Zod.

I'm not saying that Linda Danvers or the earthborn angels or shapeshifting Matrix need to be erased but I think they desperately need to be contextualized without the Time Trapper or the pre-Crisis Legion being part of that backstory.
ddf
Patrick Gerard View Post
I doubt she'll get a new origin anytime soon.

Anyways, you don't have to mention the zero hour legion stuff at all. She's simply from an alternate world where clark kent died and Luthor created a the matrix to replace him. Upon that world's destruction she came to ours. The Legion/Zero Hour stuff just makes it cooler to us long time fans.




I thought the Hyppolyta retcon was one of the best ones yet. Never cared about the character until the whole time travel thing.
 
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   James Melanson is offline   #9
James Melanson's Avatar
James Melanson
Neo Geoffan

 
joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 438

Default

What a shame. This was a perfect opportunity to undo a terrible mistake, ie, retconning Hippolyta into the Golden Age wonder Woman. Thus elevating her above Diana. A terrible mistake. And a real blow to the unique quality of this character. I hope this can still be undone. Please rethink this Geoff. Diana should be THE Wonder Woman.

There's a reason why Jor-El wasn't retconned into the GA Superman, and Thomas Wayne wasn't rewritten as the GA Batman. Wonder Woman should be in that league. Not retconned into a "daughter of" character. It damages this character tremendously.

Byrne's mistake should be undone.

Frankly, I never understood the Hippolyta love. She had no significant storyline; she mostly served as background color. She had a couple of lines here and there, and swung her sword a couple of times. But other than some great duds, there wasn't really much to write home about. I often think that people liked her better because they could project any personality they wanted onto her; any specificity.

I understand JSA fans-who never liked Wonder Woman-liking Hippy because of the JSA association. But as a Wonder Woman fan, I feel mortified. Sixty years of history down the drain. And one of the most important comics creations, and a feminist icon, reduced to a mother-daughter fight over identity. Yuck.
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2006   Jake1823 is offline   #10
Jake1823's Avatar
Jake1823
The Unbanned Horseman

 
joined: Sep 2005
Location: Lincolnwood, IL
Posts: 24,413

Default

What a shame. This was a perfect opportunity to undo a terrible mistake, ie, retconning Hippolyta into the Golden Age wonder Woman. Thus elevating her above Diana. A terrible mistake. And a real blow to the unique quality of this character. I hope this can still be undone. Please rethink this Geoff. Diana should be THE Wonder Woman.

There's a reason why Jor-El wasn't retconned into the GA Superman, and Thomas Wayne wasn't rewritten as the GA Batman. Wonder Woman should be in that league. Not retconned into a "daughter of" character. It damages this character tremendously.

Byrne's mistake should be undone.
ddf
James Melanson View Post
I agree. WW loses that certain unique something that the Trinity has now. At least imo.
 
Where is everybody?
Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006   Sk8maven is offline   #11
Sk8maven's Avatar
Sk8maven
persona non grata

 
joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,451

Default

We do have a problem here. Perez' revamp of Wonder Woman changed Diana so drastically that, no matter what got retconned, she could never again match the personality shown by the Golden Age Wonder Woman.

The advantage of Hippolyta was that she WAS more of a "blank slate" and so there was less trouble matching her up to the Golden Age original.

The only real hitch was that time travel angle - which was Byrne compounding a felony he had previously committed (killing off Diana). It was the best he could do at the time - and like the "Pocket Universe" patch applied to the Legion (by Paul Levitz over another Byrne destruction), it wasn't good enough.

Given the situation as it now is (Diana as frigid virginal "Goddess-on-Earth"), it would make no sense to try to plug her back in. She wouldn't, couldn't respond to the other characters and situations the way that was originally recorded.

The Golden Age Wonder Woman was no Goddess, but a fully real and very human woman. Someone who could get down and dirty with "the boys", play right alongside them, laugh with them (and occasionally at them), and even humor them when necessary. Diana can't do that any more. She's been placed so high on a pedestal that she's been dehumanized.

I have not heard that the Golden Age Superman or Batman have been fully reinserted into DCU continuity - at most, some of the JSA remember that they used to know those guys, when their world was different. So there is no real comparison.

It's really funny how many of the same fans who howl that "Wonder Woman should be Diana and no one else!" are fully accepting of the retcon that made the Silver/Bronze/Modern Age Black Canary a completely separate person from the Golden Age one (and incidentally eliminated a horrible Mopee-class retcon that made her nothing but a vessel for her mother's memories - eeeuuuwww!!!).

Maven
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006   Patrick Gerard is offline   #12
Patrick Gerard's Avatar
Patrick Gerard
Geoffan

 
joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 982

Default

Well, Wonder Woman is a founding member of the JLA again and her pre-Crisis history seems to be melded with her Perez history now.

She wore the bicycle shorts and strap boots when she founded the JLA and even lost her powers circa the Satellite era and fought crime in the white jumpsuit.

I'd really just assume they pull one last retcon (keep in mind that the Polly stuff tied into the much derided GENESIS anyway) and say that Diana was the Golden Age Wonder Woman via time travel.

I suppose that messes with Donna Troy's origins even more though.
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006   Blackhawkk is offline   #13
Blackhawkk's Avatar
Blackhawkk
Advanced Geoffan

 
joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,125

Default

Unlike "Crisis On Infinite Earths", "Infinite Crisis" didn't change anything. We're back to status quo and the whole purpose of "Infinite Crisis" was nothing?

Except to kill off the earth-2 Superman... still waiting for the major changes.
 
"Tolerance Is A Virture Of A Man Without Convictions." G.K. Chesterton
Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006   k26dp is offline   #14
k26dp's Avatar
k26dp
Earth-7's L73dp

 
joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,518

Default

Could the "purpose" of Infinite Crisis be nothing more than telling a big story? Why does there have to be "major changes"?
 
Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006   Matches is offline   #15
Matches's Avatar
Matches
stepping aside

 
joined: Feb 2004
Location: Tobacco Road
Posts: 14,989

Default

It's really funny how many of the same fans who howl that "Wonder Woman should be Diana and no one else!" are fully accepting of the retcon that made the Silver/Bronze/Modern Age Black Canary a completely separate person from the Golden Age one (and incidentally eliminated a horrible Mopee-class retcon that made her nothing but a vessel for her mother's memories - eeeuuuwww!!!).

Maven
ddf
Sk8maven View Post
I thought that story was about the creepiest thing I ever read. A fine example of Roy Thomas at his worst - constructing some bizarre, contrived solution to a "problem" that he and about 10 other people on Earth cared about. Having Superman show up randomly at the end to then reveal that he knew all along was unintentionally hilarious. ("Uh Supes? Glad you showed up to add some overdone exposition here, but we really coulda used you to.. y'know... help fight the bad guy? Oh and by the way, thanks for letting me walk around for years pretending to be my mom and with memories of having sex with my dad. You're a real pal.")
 
@allstarmatches on Twitter.
Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006   mmk123 is offline   #16
mmk123's Avatar
mmk123
Geoffan

 
joined: Feb 2004
Location: pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 908

Default

I like the fact the Hyppolyte is still the JSA Wonder Woman. Why change history once again. I do not see where it is important for the JSA to have a Superman or Batman but WOnder Woman has always been an important part of the JSA. I thought that was a great change that John Byrne did during his run by making her the JSA Wonder Woman.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2000-2008 Comic Bloc All characters and titles are © by their respective owners.