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Old May 18th, 2006   Sk8maven is offline   #129
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Equality is forthcoming, ladies, especially as things are already quite different from how they were 30 to 50 years ago in this industry. But even Rome wasn't built in a day.
ddf
Oh Yeah
What you don't seem to realize is that it's not an automatic or irreversible process. If nobody makes a fuss, nothing will ever change. The early feminists learned that lesson the hard way, when they were encouraged to be nice quiet little ladies and work for other people's social benefit before asking for their own. They got bupkes for it, and it took a far more activist and clamorous generation (who saw what niceness and politeness had failed to achieve) to get anything done.

Yeah, we've gone way off topic. It happens. It's called "thread drift".

Maven
 
Old May 18th, 2006   Oh Yeah is offline   #130
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What you don't seem to realize is that it's not an automatic or irreversible process. If nobody makes a fuss, nothing will ever change. The early feminists learned that lesson the hard way, when they were encouraged to be nice quiet little ladies and work for other people's social benefit before asking for their own. They got bupkes for it, and it took a far more activist and clamorous generation (who saw what niceness and politeness had failed to achieve) to get anything done.

Yeah, we've gone way off topic. It happens. It's called "thread drift".

Maven
ddf
Sk8maven
I understand that. But what YOU don't seem to realize is that constantly looking at what's "wrong", without given any thought to what's "right" also does little to no good.

Example, explaining why a story failed to grab you. You read a comic and didn't enjoy it. There's two schools of thought in how to express it:

1) "Man, that SUCKED! What kind of hack writes such crap? Heck, I'm surprised they even understand the English language, given how much they utterly lacked in storytelling ability. Maybe you need a new career, like flipping burgers! Your writing stinks!"

2) "While I can appreciate what the writer was going for, and can even find some of it interesting on an elementary level, the writer has failed to get the intent across properly. The end result is a story, that despite it's merit, falls flat and lacks the needed depth of character and expression to really be engaging."

Now, both say the same exact thing. But the latter could actually be of help to the writer in improving their craft, while the former does not. The latter takes certain realities, like that the writer was not out to write a bad story, into account and makes the case needed to bring about improvment.

I understand why women FEEL what they do on matters like this, but if you only ever decree the negative and not the positive, you run the risk of being seen as nothing but (and pardon my french, ladies) a "whiny bitch." And who even wants to listen to them? Even whiny bitches don't want to listen those they think are one. H.E.A.T. used to be that way and all it got them was ridicule and scorn. They didn't get what they wanted any faster for being that way. Neither will women.

You can keep an issue at the forefront, without constantly focusing on the negative. And you'd be much better served by doing so. People tend to be more receptive to sugar than vinegar.
 
Old May 18th, 2006   Sk8maven is offline   #131
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People tend to be more receptive to sugar than vinegar.
ddf
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Yarite. It wasn't sweet talk that got women the vote. It was women chaining themselves to the White House fence and doing other blatantly disruptive things that got national attention.

It wasn't sweet talk that got the Civil Rights act passed. It was Rosa Parks sitting down on the bus, four students sitting at a "forbidden" lunch counter, Dr. King's march from Selma to Montgomery, and many other acts of overt disobedience to unjust laws.

Sweet talk gets you politely ignored.

Maven
 
Old May 18th, 2006   Ron Marz is offline   #132
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Speaking of being politely ignored...

I've asked twice for this thread to steer back on topic. I'll ask once more: if you want to discuss something other than the topic at hand, do it somewhere else.

If anyone finds they're unable to comply with that request, I'll just lock the thread. Thanks for your cooperation.
 
Old May 18th, 2006   Sk8maven is offline   #133
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Okay, gang, let's take it over here and quit tromping through the flowerbeds: http://comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27229

Maven
 
Old May 18th, 2006   Pete22 is offline   #134
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Man - i just discovered this thread - don't see the reason of all this mess, but to stay on topic:

I really liked Jenny as a supportive character and was surprised that she got killed. But i didn't cared that much. As i said, for me she had just a supportive function. In Outsiders recently and in the GL title she was almost acting in the background. So I'm cool with her death and thought that the 2 page splashpage was kinda great and giving her credit. I even thing it was quite touching. But i never mind whose call it was determining her death. In my opinion, it was a good story and fun to read, even it was tragic.

Why her? Well it served the story. If it would have been somebody else - there would be other people complaining but no other character would have led to kyle becoming Ion.

But honestly , i don't see the point of attacking any writer oder anybody else. ?
 
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Old May 22nd, 2006   Guicho- is offline   #135
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[quote=Ragnell]
Wait Kyle who’s the latest in a line of five, male, chosen, earth born, GLs? And somehow Jade is considered the redundant one out?
The only female, the only one born with the powers internalized literally the next step in the evolution of GLs.
She was the most unique one! /QUOTE]

Why does nobody see how sexist that logic is?

Her only distinctions are her gender and that she had internalized powers (Which, well, Kyle and Alan have too!)

Oh, and her skin color.

You could have brought up her personality? Her skills? Something about her outlook that differentiates her from one of the guys? You had to say she was personally unique specifically for her gender?

I mean, with Katma -- She's idealistic, romantic, and marked by her faith in the Guardians and the Corps, she's also wise, and quietly strong.

Arisia -- A bright, optimistic, young person who was undergoing her growing pains and her first romance.

Soranik -- She's analytical, professional, proud of her medical training and good at it. She's a spiritual person who respects the dead, highly superstitious.

Brik -- a compassionate, caring, person who is slow to lose her temper unless someone she cares about gets hurt. Softhearted, also romantic.

I could describe these characters this way after reading two or three issues of each of them (as SUPPORTING characters, not even spotlighted).

Why is it that we've read ten years of Jade, we still fall back on "she was the only female, born with her powers, and she's green skinned" when pressed to describe her uniqueness?
ddf
Guicho-
If you don’t see how out of the six redundant EARTH BORN characters. Five being male and five being “chosen”. The only female and only one born with the powers, makes Jade the most unmistakably obvious least redundant of the six?
Then you probably have some ax to grind against Jade.
And sorry, nobody suggested those were the ONLY things unique about Jade, except maybe you,
but way to jump to conclusions
I wasn’t t looking to summarize her near 20 years of depiction and publication history, in some pith little anecdote about her here.

But I’m sure since hollow Jade is finally dead and out of the way, Katma, Arisia, Soranik and Brik are finally perched on the brink of discovery! And can now skyrocket into celebrity and prominence!
Especially since two are already offing next in line as soon as the vapid male lead needs new anguish and motivation.
And the other two FYI are already DEAD! for the same reasons.
But yeah, thank goodness we have them and the five male GL leads. And thank goodness we got rid of pesky redundant Jade.
Pathetic.
Last edited by Guicho-; May 22nd, 2006 at 11:25 AM.
 
Old May 22nd, 2006   Erik Sternberger is offline   #136
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Gang, let's keep it civil, and in all honesty, I think this topic reached it's end days ago. The topic has been answered, any debate on sexism, or whatever can go to the link Sk8maven posted.

Thanks
 
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