Dick Grayson's Titans - why they matter tonight

[tamaranorbust]

I have written a piece about yesterday's tragic events in relation Batman storylines and the slow destruction of the Titans franchise over the past ten years. Obviously, it is my opinion only about DC's direction, but I feel it generally reflects something about what the Titans represent, and why it is so wrong that the Titans' 50 year continuity has been retconned away.

http://historiesofthingstocome.blogs...-evil-won.html

[BESTBUY]

Very interesting. Didio's universe is too dark and grim I have to agree and the elimination of the original titans leaves a void in the DC Universe.

[tamaranorbust]

Very interesting. Didio's universe is too dark and grim I have to agree and the elimination of the original titans leaves a void in the DC Universe.

BESTBUY

Of course, above all, concern and grief for the victims and condolences for their families are all that matters at this time.

As far as creating comics go, it is valid to explore grimdark stories in a grim world. I was suggesting rather that it would have been helpful if DC, in addition to pursuing the themes they wanted to pursue, had also provided an alternative. I felt that the Titans were the clearest alternative type of hopeful heroism under grim conditions that DC ever developed.

[JRM]

Very interesting. Didio's universe is too dark and grim I have to agree and the elimination of the original titans leaves a void in the DC Universe.

BESTBUY

Rarely do we agree, but on this one it's a total 100% "Like"

Jim

[chasm]

I am in 100% agreement. The Titans used to represent a hopeful future but for the last decade have been reduced to cannon fodder. I'm not even upset that we're missing Donna, Garth & Wally. I'd rather they were kept safe in limbo until creators that have greater appreciation for these characters worth comes along with a great story.

[Mackaybear]

It is interesting to me. The two main Teenage teams in the DCU were always the more optimistic ones. The NTT and the Legion.

Both were lighter in tone, even though some rather drastic things could happen. But they always maintained a positive outlook..

And both when through some rather bad times in the 2000's. Despite the fact that they work better showing a sense of optimism.

It's sad when you realize that DC doesn't seem to want to have even a small corner of the DCU or DCnU to be bright and happy.

[Bill_Nailer]

I'm not sure why people on this board think that all the grim and grit in comics is a DCentric problem. Apparently it is what sells in today's comic market. Look at the offerings of Marvel in the last 10 years, grim and grit. One of the best selling independent books, the Walking Dead, grim and grit. All this pointing the finger at DC for doing what they perceive what the public wants, is ludicrous. Not all the offerings of the DCnu have been grim and grit. Flash as one example of that.

I have enjoyed the Teen Titans series so far. I haven't been reading any of the other offerings from the Young Justice portion of the DCnu. It's been a solidly entertaining book.

I think people complain too much, especially about books they aren't even buying. Plain stupidity in my opinion.

[ADGood]

I admit that, sometimes, I forget that there are good reasons why the NTT and the X-Men were the two most popular superhero teams of their respective heydays.

[ADGood]

I'm not sure why people on this board think that all the grim and grit in comics is a DCentric problem. Apparently it is what sells in today's comic market. Look at the offerings of Marvel in the last 10 years, grim and grit. One of the best selling independent books, the Walking Dead, grim and grit. All this pointing the finger at DC for doing what they perceive what the public wants, is ludicrous. Not all the offerings of the DCnu have been grim and grit. Flash as one example of that.

Bill_Nailer

You make a good point that DC is not the only company capitalizing on darkness or edge. Still, those who criticize DC's offerings deftly point out that DC's rebooted line is conspicuous in that it has no humor-centric books. None. It has dark books and it has action books (and the action books, like Flash, are allowed to have a fun moment here and there)...but no books where fun is the central point - the name of the game. As you say, this is probably done purely because that's what the market told them was the best bet. But that doesn't mean that other folks are necessarily wrong when they say that it's a pity.

Marvel also bets the big bucks on darkness and action. But they'll still put out a funnybook (an actual "comic" book, if you will) amidst all their edgy offerings. And, as for independent comics, they can be chock-full of fun. Why, the creator of The Walking Dead also puts out a bunch of other books. His other successful title is a superhero book filled with blood, gore and the destruction of entire planets...which still manages to be a heck of a lot funnier and more lighthearted than anything DC is currently publishing. Also, he does this other one about a kid who turns into a superhero dinosaur with rocket launchers. Again, same guy who does the grim zombie book.

Now, I wouldn't suggest that a publisher should bank on fun instead of slam-bang action. Like you said, that's not where the money tells them they should go. But I would contend that it's possible to have both. Remember that scene in Avengers with Loki and the Hulk? I remember that scene. It was funny. There was a lot of fun in that story. But I hear that, even with all that fun, it still managed to make a tiny profit.

[Mackaybear]

Having started out as Geoff's board, we've always been a bit DC centric here.

I haven't done more than thumbed through a Marvel book in ages. Last book I read regularly from Marvel was Thor.

I've said it before. The kind of stuff that happens to modern comic book heroes. Who'd want that? They go from bad situation to worse situation, and rarely have much good happen to them.

I don't understand why any one would deal with that sort of life, IMHO.

Complex stories are good, and I don't want a return to the simple stories of the Silver Age. But this is just ridiculous. No wondering that I'm down to Flash, Earth 2, Worlds Finest and the odd, Showcase Presents or Marvel Essentials. SIGH...

[Sentinel]

DC even went to great lengths to dismantle its most fun book, the Justice League International. Kill Blue Beetle. Kill Ralph and Sue, and then to add insult to injury, it too is retconned out of existence.

I loved Fomerly Known as the Justice League and I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League. These books can't happen in the new DCU. The DCnU JLI was not a bad book, but it was nowhere near what the previous series was. Heck, I think even Generation Lost raised expectations that could never be met.

As for the Titans, we'e seen allusions to the previous incarnations in Red Hood and the Outlaws. My question is what has the 5 year as opposed to the 10 year gap done for the DC line? In my opinion, it hasn't produced anything but confusion. Books such as the bat line, Green Lantern books and even Aquaman have primarily continued on from the pre Flashpoint universe, are now mired in a bigger mess continuity wise than ever before.

[ADGood]

Having started out as Geoff's board, we've always been a bit DC centric here.

Mackaybear

Just a bit, yeah.

[tamaranorbust]

DC even went to great lengths to dismantle its most fun book, the Justice League International. Kill Blue Beetle. Kill Ralph and Sue, and then to add insult to injury, it too is retconned out of existence. I loved Fomerly Known as the Justice League and I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League. These books can't happen in the new DCU. The DCnU JLI was not a bad book, but it was nowhere near what the previous series was. Heck, I think even Generation Lost raised expectations that could never be met. As for the Titans, we'e seen allusions to the previous incarnations in Red Hood and the Outlaws. My question is what has the 5 year as opposed to the 10 year gap done for the DC line? In my opinion, it hasn't produced anything but confusion. Books such as the bat line, Green Lantern books and even Aquaman have primarily continued on from the pre Flashpoint universe, are now mired in a bigger mess continuity wise than ever before.

Sentinel

As for fun books, why did Tiny Titans have to be canceled?

Regarding the tragic crime that inspired the thread, I was thinking of books like NTT 35, and many other storylines (not least the opening Terminator story with Grant Wilson, the Judas Contract, and several Steve Dayton stories) in which the Titans at one time became DC's main heroes to deal with another character's alienation and resort to violence:

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/New_Teen_Titans_Vol_1_35

Also, the Titans' friendships were a barrier to scary social isolation. Characters like Roy and Raven could fall apart but the other members of the team helped them, no matter what.

This was a problem with Deathstroke's Titans - it wasn't believable that the Titans would have ignored Roy long enough for him to kill the Electrocutioner and join a team run by Slade.

If the Titans series in 2008 had been handled better, DC would have had an updated way of presenting some of these important heroic ideas.

[Outside_85]

As for fun books, why did Tiny Titans have to be canceled?

tamaranorbust

Art got the chance to give a 'Tiny Titan'esque' overhaul to the Superman Family, which I suppose is just the usual DC method of rewarding a job well done by moving them on to a bigger franchise.

[Scott Mateo]

Having started out as Geoff's board, we've always been a bit DC centric here.

Mackaybear

TActually, to be honest, when this was geoffjohns.com, Geoff had just done THE THING: FREAKSHOW and had started his AVENGERS stint.

DC even went to great lengths to dismantle its most fun book, the Justice League International. Kill Blue Beetle. Kill Ralph and Sue, and then to add insult to injury, it too is retconned out of existence. I loved Fomerly Known as the Justice League and I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League. These books can't happen in the new DCU. The DCnU JLI was not a bad book, but it was nowhere near what the previous series was. Heck, I think even Generation Lost raised expectations that could never be met.

Sentinel

What's even worse is that books like the JUSTICE LEAGUE are trying to hard to ape and recapture that humor by painting Flash and GL as the new Beetle and Booster. The way those two were acting at the beginning of that run, I could totally see them pulling a Kooey Kooey Kooey, or being super repo-men. And some of Hal's lines are the same as Wally's, coming straight off the JL cartoon ("Dibs on the Amazon").

[ADGood]

TActually, to be honest, when this was geoffjohns.com, Geoff had just done THE THING: FREAKSHOW and had started his AVENGERS stint.

Scott Mateo

I hear he did a few things with DC after that. You know. For a while.