Making sense out of Batman and Green Lantern's new continuity

[superfriend]

I've been enjoying Action though I have issues with the art. There's definitely a sense of this being "not Superman" but I think that's intentional to a point. What's very interesting to me about Action is that it's one of the few times historically that we've seen a Superman who's active but not fully formed. It's always struck me that DC has managed to create a cottage industry of telling "year one" stories about Batman but has never really been able to pull off the same thing with Superman. They've re-done his origin every so often but there's never been a successful "Legends of the Man of Steel"-type series. I think the reason for that is that historically there's been no difference between "Year One" Superman and Now Superman. He's married to Lois or he's not, but that really didn't change the stories much. With Batman the eras are very distinct - no Robin, less experienced, etc. - but they've never had that with Superman. Now, for the first time, you can kind of see a difference - you can follow the Morrison template and play proto-Superman and cockier, less refined etc. I think that's pretty cool. I don't have much of a feel yet for Now Superman (dropped Superman after #1), so I don't know if what he evolves into is something I'll necessarily like, but I really dig the idea of Year One Superman.

Matches

i agree and based on interviews and such, my feeling is that it is mostly Morrison we have to thank for that. I too have huge problems with the art. probably the largest contributing factor to the prohibition of my enjoyment. as many have lamented, i could spend a good deal more time with Young Superman and be pleased as punch. but it appears we are going to be taken into the present in every way very soon.

[flashsuper]

Batman has been operating longer than 5 years in the new continuity (the 5yr thing is only supposed to apply to the dawn of superheroes when it comes to the general public with Bats operating as an urban myth for an unspecified amount of time before that) With GL, though all bets are off. All we know is Hal just got the ring 5yrs ago according to the first arc of GL set in the past and was still in "trying to prove his worth" mode while also still being naive to the Guardians in the beginning (when Hal told Bruce "the Guardians have never lied to me") Also in GL, all we know is Hal's been through 5yrs of hell, distrusts the Guardians, and is stuck in a situation not of his own making (thanks to the Guardians and Sin) Sin's list of crimes seems to be shortened as well (or Kilowog would have tried to go after Sin for killing his entire race, same with Kyle for Sin killing his mother, and Guy for Sin brainwashing him)

Mark MacMillan

This is the part that helps the Robin conundrum. Now, I haven't read all the books to know the answer, but if Batman was operating before the five year deal (which makes me believe it is so because of one of the Leaguers commenting on thinking he was a myth) then quite possibly Robin was around prior to the five year thing beginning, so it would be easier to squeeze all the Robins in that time span. I can see Dick being around prior to that and lasting 3 or more years, Jason only a year or two then dying and Tim for two and then the emergence of Damien just beginning.

With that being said, I try hard not to overthink it and take it for what it is: A new universe and things "now" really shouldn't be compared to how things "were" and expanding THAT by remembering that there is absolutely no way that one could take all the history of Batman and STILL condense it into a workable time frame. It would be like an episode of 24 happening every single day, going from one villain to the next. It's just not feasible. I think we try too hard putting a real life "time" onto the make believe world of comic book "time." It just cannot be done. I remember the good old days when people groused about the seemingly agelessness of some of our heroes while watching others (Dick and Speedy for example) get older and it was really no big deal.."Eh. Comic books whadaya expect?" It really wasn't expected to fit then nor should it now. I'm just rolling with it and waiting to see how history unfolds in the NuDC.

[flashsuper]

I think Superman's comment in Swamp Thing was one of those early in the game, "we don't know what's in canon or not yet" moments that the DCnU books were FULL of out of the gate. Hawkman, anyone? Then you have Sterling Gates saying he wished he knew what was what when he started Hawk & Dove so he could have just ignored the leftover Deadman-dating-Dove bit from BD. But he DIDN"T KNOW what he was supposed to acknowledge or ignore. That's pretty damn shoddy planning, IMO. Plus, I remember reading Didio or someone else saying the Death of Superman was still part of continuity... which they've probably backtracked on already. And then changed their minds again. The problem is that DC's trying to have its cake and eat it too, by claiming that their more popular books of the past (Killing Joke, Death of Superman, Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, etc.) are still in-canon. If they would just have the cajones to say "It's all gone, It's all-new, period," there would be no confusion. And continuity-loving losers like myself wouldn't feel compelled to try to piece it all together.And, for the record, I'm not one of those types who bitches when something contradicts a Riddler story published in 1979. I know everything can't always stay in continuity, especially the further back in time you go with it. That really would shackle the writers beyond reason. But if they're going to cherry-pick stories to keep, and others to lose, at least have the decency to toss a few crumbs our way to explain HOW stories that cannot have happened as told could still happen. Example: Wonder Woman appears in 1987, all-new, and with no previously published stories remaining in canon. So... do I sweat the fact that this means that she couldn't have stopped Angle Man from assassinating Jimmy Carter in 1975? No. But the big stuff, like "What about the JLA?", yeah, I think it warrants an explanation of, absent WW, how did the JLA form? Answer: Black Canary became a founding member. "Okay." Thank you, SECRET ORIGINS. Or, absent Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman on Earth-2, how was the JSA's origin changed? Again, "Thank you SECRET ORIGINS." I think there is a reasonable middle ground between asking "What about all of those JLA stories featuring the original Katar Hol?", versus "In Omega Men #7 it said the Gordanians were carnivores, but in INVASION #3 they clearly showed alien vegetable matter on a dining tray in the background of page 14, panel 5. Who wrote this crap?"

Mr. Wrong

You're not a loser, Mistah Wong. I too used to be like you. But now I employ the "Flashsuper mindwipe philosophy" and ignore things and pretend I'm reading something new every time! The ignore feature can be applied to many things in life. I especially use it when I hear my kids fighting and one says "DAD!!! So and so won't watch something we both like!! (a TV program)" My response is "Love you!" and I continue doing what i'm doing.

I first learned to let continuity go when they started airing the "Flinstone Kids" on TV. Now, everybody knows that Fred met Wilma when they were teenagers dammit and I've seen that effing episode...mother effers, you think I'm effing kidding around here man?(just joking mods, not trying to circumvent anything! and not when they were toddlers.

[Mr. Wrong]

You're not a loser, Mistah Wong. I too used to be like you. But now I employ the "Flashsuper mindwipe philosophy" and ignore things and pretend I'm reading something new every time! The ignore feature can be applied to many things in life. I especially use it when I hear my kids fighting and one says "DAD!!! So and so won't watch something we both like!! (a TV program)" My response is "Love you!" and I continue doing what i'm doing. I first learned to let continuity go when they started airing the "Flinstone Kids" on TV. Now, everybody knows that Fred met Wilma when they were teenagers dammit and I've seen that effing episode...mother effers, you think I'm effing kidding around here man?(just joking mods, not trying to circumvent anything! and not when they were toddlers.

flashsuper

LOL! Hilarious post!

I need to install the Ignore feature, too. Not just for comics, but your solution to the screaming child situation is brilliantly simple. This is a typical evening at home with my son:

"Daddy!"
"Yes?"
"Flash has red and yellow powers."
"Oh, okay..."
"Daddy!"
"Yes..."
"I got a Diego sticker."
"I know, that's nice."
"Daddy!"
"What?!"
"I wanna watch Batman with Riddler."
"Okay, let me get..."
"Daddy!"
"WHAT???!!!!!"
"I don't want to watch Batman with Ridler."
"ARRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!"

[Mike Murphy]

I find continuity is best considered only after a six-pack and several shots.

[Bagged & Boarded]

I thought the timeline in Ultimate Spider-man was great! Peters enitre run of 10 years of comics came out to about a year in the comic timeline. I think, to a degree, that could and should be done with the DCnU.

[TJLamb0518]

I thought the timeline in Ultimate Spider-man was great! Peters enitre run of 10 years of comics came out to about a year in the comic timeline. I think, to a degree, that could and should be done with the DCnU.

Bagged & Boarded

Be fair. Bendis writes Ultimate Spider-Man. 10 years of issues could fit into a holiday weekend the way he decompresses things.

[Bagged & Boarded]

Be fair. Bendis writes Ultimate Spider-Man. 10 years of issues could fit into a holiday weekend the way he decompresses things.

TJLamb0518

But there IS something to what he does...decompression aside. I don't believe there needs to be such a huge gap in many of the DC stories. It CAN be condensed ... and quite a bit.

Geoff , for the most part, isn't known for decompression...take his first Flash run for example. 5 years or so in our time. there is no reason his entire run couldn't have taken place within 5 or 6 months.

Sure there are things out there like One Year Later but...c'mon...not getting too anal with it I really don't think it would be a problem condensing the DCU history into 5 years.

[TJLamb0518]

But there IS something to what he does...decompression aside. I don't believe there needs to be such a huge gap in many of the DC stories. It CAN be condensed ... and quite a bit. Geoff , for the most part, isn't known for decompression...take his first Flash run for example. 5 years or so in our time. there is no reason his entire run couldn't have taken place within 5 or 6 months. Sure there are things out there like One Year Later but...c'mon...not getting too anal with it I really don't think it would be a problem condensing the DCU history into 5 years.

Bagged & Boarded

But they should've gone with the total reboot if they were so set to hit the old reset button.

Don't repeat the mistakes they made after CoIE.


At least Hawkman didn't cause the problem this time and got rebooted right away into wonderfulness.



*snort*

[RainKing]

I've been enjoying Action though I have issues with the art. There's definitely a sense of this being "not Superman" but I think that's intentional to a point. What's very interesting to me about Action is that it's one of the few times historically that we've seen a Superman who's active but not fully formed. It's always struck me that DC has managed to create a cottage industry of telling "year one" stories about Batman but has never really been able to pull off the same thing with Superman. They've re-done his origin every so often but there's never been a successful "Legends of the Man of Steel"-type series. I think the reason for that is that historically there's been no difference between "Year One" Superman and Now Superman. He's married to Lois or he's not, but that really didn't change the stories much. With Batman the eras are very distinct - no Robin, less experienced, etc. - but they've never had that with Superman. Now, for the first time, you can kind of see a difference - you can follow the Morrison template and play proto-Superman and cockier, less refined etc. I think that's pretty cool. I don't have much of a feel yet for Now Superman (dropped Superman after #1), so I don't know if what he evolves into is something I'll necessarily like, but I really dig the idea of Year One Superman.

Matches

I agree. Superman has lacked a true Year One story. Loeb and Sales Superman: For All Seasons kind of fills the role.

Both Byrne and Busiek have referenced that Clark had operated anonomously for a number of years between the time he left Smallvile and the time he adopted the Superman identity and I would have liked to see some stories focusing on that period of Clark/Superman's life.

Morrison is kind of giving us a bit of that with his fisrt arc, but I would still ike to see more.

[TJLamb0518]

It's funny but I saw a pic of NuSuperman at a glance the other day and thought it was Ultraman.


Is he still around or is he dead again?

[Alan]

Not got to Earth 3 (or wherever they are) yet.

No doubt they will. Give them a few months.

[Mr. Wrong]

It's funny but I saw a pic of NuSuperman at a glance the other day and thought it was Ultraman. Is he still around or is he dead again?

TJLamb0518

Maybe Ultraman will have red trousers and a spit curl now.

[TJLamb0518]

Maybe Ultraman will have red trousers and a spit curl now.

Mr. Wrong

or maybe (again), this whole thing is a giant Heroes Reborn red herring and this Superman is ...well, an Ultra kind of guy.....

[Mr. Wrong]

or maybe (again), this whole thing is a giant Heroes Reborn red herring and this Superman is ...well, an Ultra kind of guy.....

TJLamb0518

Well, he does like breaking bones and ripping the heads off of unidentified sentient alien beings, and he is here to save us from ourselves...

Now that would be a wild twist, if NuEarth slowly reveals itself to be the new Earth-3 as the "heroes" get progressively more fascist and violent, ultimately threatening their world's survival, only to be thwarted by the classic DC heroes of the "real" New Earth or Earth-1 or whatever they end up calling it.

(Not going to happen, but man that would be great.) (IMO).

[Bizarro #98]

or maybe (again), this whole thing is a giant Heroes Reborn red herring and this Superman is ...well, an Ultra kind of guy.....

TJLamb0518

Wouldn't that be more Thunderbolts than Heroes Reborn?