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Old July 12th, 2009   Holiday is offline   #1
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Default Detective Comics 856 cover (possible spoilers)



I know that the latin that appears in the background of the cover (Humanus, Mutatio, Bestia, Virtus) translates to Human, Change, Animal, Valor.

Now, the reason that this may be a spoiler is the fact that back in Greg's run on Detective Comics (specifically, 743-746), Whisper A'Daire, who played a role thoughout 52 and the Religion of Crime, used a serum to transform herself and others into different mutated animals. Would she possible have a role in the Religion of Crime still? Is the plot to try to change all of Gotham into these animal creatures like it was before? The werewolf in the background kinda looks like Kyle Abbott. I am just throwing out some theories that I have.
 
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Old July 12th, 2009   RetroWarbird is offline   #2
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I know that the latin that appears in the background of the cover (Humanus, Mutatio, Bestia, Virtus) translates to Human, Change, Animal, Valor.

Now, the reason that this may be a spoiler is the fact that back in Greg's run on Detective Comics (specifically, 743-746), Whisper A'Daire, who played a role thoughout 52 and the Religion of Crime, used a serum to transform herself and others into different mutated animals. Would she possible have a role in the Religion of Crime still? Is the plot to try to change all of Gotham into these animal creatures like it was before? The werewolf in the background kinda looks like Kyle Abbott. I am just throwing out some theories that I have.
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I think it'd be awesome if Kyle Abbot featured prominently into Rucka's run on Detective, first because I'm a fanatical werewolf fanboy covered with werewolf tattoos. Second, because Greg has used Abbot before, and actually, for being knee-deep in the Religion of Crime, League of Assasins and Intergang, he's somewhat of a sympathetic character, and third ... because it's Detective Comics, it's crime noir, but since the 70's, there has ALWAYS been room in the bat-books for a good old fashioned street detective trails something ... supernatural and such ... like Anthony Romulus back in the day.

I'll admit, I first thought Abbot when I saw the big bad wolf in the background as well.

Another thing to note ... the seal in the center of that Crime Bible imagery depicts a Chimera. More than just being a Greek myth of several creatures combined, modern genetics uses the term Chimera to describe any gene-spliced animals. Chimeras are in fact seen in our day-to-day lives. Heck, in High School Bio I remember splicing Luciferase from glowbugs into E. Coli bacteria, creating a Chimeric bacterium that glowed in the dark.

The Chimera seems to be a GIGANTIC hint about one of the ways the Religion of Crime is seeking to carry out their goals, although it shouldn't exactly come as a surprise, since the entire Oolong Island, Four Horsemen and Metal Men sequence of 52 involved good old fashioned Mad Science.

What I'm curious about, is how Abbot fits into that. Because sure, most of the Intergang "monster-men" (where has Hugo Strange been?) seen in Gotham in 52 were probably gene-spliced Chimeras, but as far as I can tell, isn't Kyle Abbot a traditional Werewolf? Not necessarily a "full moon" sort of werewolf, but rather the oft-seen "Incredible Hulk" kind, where they get all rage-filled and adrenaline/testosterone and "Wolf Out". I wonder at that, because he turns back into a normal human (albeit a scruffy one in need of a manicure) somewhat regularly.

But that's where Mad Science and Mad Magic can probably cross into different methods, same results. Werewolves are long rumored to be "cursed", and are ultimately a Chimera of two different animals, wolf and man, combined and damned to live an existence as a marauding killer, of peak efficiency. It could very well be an example of "it ain't broke", as the classic werewolves are far more efficient then anything the Mad Scientists seem to throw together. Or, in all likelihood, Abbot just needed work after leaving the League of Assassins.
 
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Old July 13th, 2009   Holiday is offline   #3
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I think it'd be awesome if Kyle Abbot featured prominently into Rucka's run on Detective, first because I'm a fanatical werewolf fanboy covered with werewolf tattoos. Second, because Greg has used Abbot before, and actually, for being knee-deep in the Religion of Crime, League of Assasins and Intergang, he's somewhat of a sympathetic character, and third ... because it's Detective Comics, it's crime noir, but since the 70's, there has ALWAYS been room in the bat-books for a good old fashioned street detective trails something ... supernatural and such ... like Anthony Romulus back in the day.

I'll admit, I first thought Abbot when I saw the big bad wolf in the background as well.

Another thing to note ... the seal in the center of that Crime Bible imagery depicts a Chimera. More than just being a Greek myth of several creatures combined, modern genetics uses the term Chimera to describe any gene-spliced animals. Chimeras are in fact seen in our day-to-day lives. Heck, in High School Bio I remember splicing Luciferase from glowbugs into E. Coli bacteria, creating a Chimeric bacterium that glowed in the dark.

The Chimera seems to be a GIGANTIC hint about one of the ways the Religion of Crime is seeking to carry out their goals, although it shouldn't exactly come as a surprise, since the entire Oolong Island, Four Horsemen and Metal Men sequence of 52 involved good old fashioned Mad Science.

What I'm curious about, is how Abbot fits into that. Because sure, most of the Intergang "monster-men" (where has Hugo Strange been?) seen in Gotham in 52 were probably gene-spliced Chimeras, but as far as I can tell, isn't Kyle Abbot a traditional Werewolf? Not necessarily a "full moon" sort of werewolf, but rather the oft-seen "Incredible Hulk" kind, where they get all rage-filled and adrenaline/testosterone and "Wolf Out". I wonder at that, because he turns back into a normal human (albeit a scruffy one in need of a manicure) somewhat regularly.

But that's where Mad Science and Mad Magic can probably cross into different methods, same results. Werewolves are long rumored to be "cursed", and are ultimately a Chimera of two different animals, wolf and man, combined and damned to live an existence as a marauding killer, of peak efficiency. It could very well be an example of "it ain't broke", as the classic werewolves are far more efficient then anything the Mad Scientists seem to throw together. Or, in all likelihood, Abbot just needed work after leaving the League of Assassins.
ddf
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Actually, Kyle is a Chimera of sorts. He was given the serum by Whisper that allows him to become a werewolf and back into human. Much like Whisper could fully mutate herself into a cobra. The serum itself was created by Ra's al Ghul so it is definitely science based. I really think that Greg is going back to this storyline or at least bringing back some characters from the storyline.
 
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Old July 13th, 2009   RetroWarbird is offline   #4
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Actually, Kyle is a Chimera of sorts. He was given the serum by Whisper that allows him to become a werewolf and back into human. Much like Whisper could fully mutate herself into a cobra. The serum itself was created by Ra's al Ghul so it is definitely science based. I really think that Greg is going back to this storyline or at least bringing back some characters from the storyline.
ddf
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No surprise there - there's a few characters that tend to "tag along" with authors that have done the most with them. Kyle and Whisper went from the League of Assassins in Rucka's Batman stuff to Intergang in Rucka's 52 stuff.

I'm glad to hear of the scientific background on Abbot - ultimately, it makes him somewhat the modern successor to Anthony Romulus in a very literal sense, although it seems they're using a more generic "animal fusion serum". Still ... it does bring up some MASSIVE questions that tie into some old questions of mine.

For starters ... the Man-Bat serum has also been recently put into MAJOR use by the League of Assassins by Grant Morrison. And effectively, Man-Bat's serum and Professor Milo's wolf-projects are linked to the same era (indeed only a handful of issues apart) of Detective Comics. So the sudden resurgence seems appropriate, (I don't believe in coincidence).

Secondly ... does Ra's al Ghul's League tie into the Religion of Crime? Aside from Talia's membership in the Society ultimately connecting her to Libra, which seems circumstantial - but the Religion of Crime were helping to set up Final Crisis (the Intergang stuff seemed VERY pro-Apokolips, and obviously Revelations was part and parcel of the scenario on the Judeo-Christian side of things), and that dove-tailed into Vandal Savage branded with the Mark of Cain ... and THAT is now dove-tailing in Outsiders to Vandal teaming with Ra's and the League of Assassins - the DCU's two most infamous immortals tackling yet more immortals, with Secret Society stalwart killer Deathstroke in on the fun as well.

I'm certainly curious about how your Leagues, Intergangs, and Crime Cults feel about one another ... since they all seem to be using the same anthropomorphic animal-human fusion henchmen temp agency.

(I won't even try to factor The Black Glove in, but certainly felt the need to mention that there's another conspiratorial private army belonging to a "demonic" leader with a gaggle of super-villain "specialists" (Hurt's Club of Villains, Ra's super-killer team, Intergang's Whisper and a few others).
 
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Old July 13th, 2009   Holiday is offline   #5
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No surprise there - there's a few characters that tend to "tag along" with authors that have done the most with them. Kyle and Whisper went from the League of Assassins in Rucka's Batman stuff to Intergang in Rucka's 52 stuff.

I'm glad to hear of the scientific background on Abbot - ultimately, it makes him somewhat the modern successor to Anthony Romulus in a very literal sense, although it seems they're using a more generic "animal fusion serum". Still ... it does bring up some MASSIVE questions that tie into some old questions of mine.

For starters ... the Man-Bat serum has also been recently put into MAJOR use by the League of Assassins by Grant Morrison. And effectively, Man-Bat's serum and Professor Milo's wolf-projects are linked to the same era (indeed only a handful of issues apart) of Detective Comics. So the sudden resurgence seems appropriate, (I don't believe in coincidence).
ddf
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Well, I do tend to agree with you that it does seem a bit coincidental that the Man-Bat serum and the possible return of Ra's human-animal mutation serum are being used at the moment. However, it does provide endless fodder for the main character to fight. I also find that the name Alice tends to have ties to Alice in Wonderland from the recent solicits in a weird psychotic sort of way. I wonder how the Mad Hatter feels about this new Alice?

Secondly ... does Ra's al Ghul's League tie into the Religion of Crime? Aside from Talia's membership in the Society ultimately connecting her to Libra, which seems circumstantial - but the Religion of Crime were helping to set up Final Crisis (the Intergang stuff seemed VERY pro-Apokolips, and obviously Revelations was part and parcel of the scenario on the Judeo-Christian side of things), and that dove-tailed into Vandal Savage branded with the Mark of Cain ... and THAT is now dove-tailing in Outsiders to Vandal teaming with Ra's and the League of Assassins - the DCU's two most infamous immortals tackling yet more immortals, with Secret Society stalwart killer Deathstroke in on the fun as well.

I'm certainly curious about how your Leagues, Intergangs, and Crime Cults feel about one another ... since they all seem to be using the same anthropomorphic animal-human fusion henchmen temp agency.

(I won't even try to factor The Black Glove in, but certainly felt the need to mention that there's another conspiratorial private army belonging to a "demonic" leader with a gaggle of super-villain "specialists" (Hurt's Club of Villains, Ra's super-killer team, Intergang's Whisper and a few others).
ddf
Well, I don't think there are any real ties between the Religion of Crime and the League of Assassins yet they are both entities that have more or less been in existence for a long period of time (while the Crime Bible stuff has come out pretty recently, it seems as if they have played a role throughout history as a more or less secret society). So they could have some ties in the past. However, I don't think that this is a path that Greg will be taking with the Religion of Crime at the moment. I could be wrong, but I just can't see it.
 
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Old July 13th, 2009   Holiday is offline   #6
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On another note, if you look specifically at the title of the series, an elegy is a reference for a lament for the dead or a poem for the dead. Part 1 was called Agitato which literally translates into "drives him"

So we could see that this is a lament for the death of Batman and the story will deal with reasoning behind what created Batwoman. Agitato could be a question of what drive him? Does this specifically mean Batman or Kate's father?
 
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Old July 23rd, 2009   DEWLine is offline   #7
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A'Daire and Abbot got their changes care of al Ghūl's alchemical potions. Whether or not Intergang - any incarnation of it over the decades that Darkseid or his cronies cared to field at the time - got their hands on the Demon's Head's potions...?
 
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Old July 24th, 2009   RetroWarbird is offline   #8
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A'Daire and Abbot got their changes care of al Ghūl's alchemical potions. Whether or not Intergang - any incarnation of it over the decades that Darkseid or his cronies cared to field at the time - got their hands on the Demon's Head's potions...?
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There's never been a direct line drawn between any of it ... but Darkseid's "monster factory" in Bludhaven does come to mind ... Kalibak, Kanto and all the tiger-men ... other freakish experiments. Kind of ties back to Oolong Island a little ...
 
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Old July 26th, 2009   Holiday is offline   #9
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Well, I have a feeling that we may get some answers this week. It seems like Kate is going to get some info from her interrogation of Alice. Of course, it could still not happen for a few more issues. I am really excited for this issue.
 
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Old August 2nd, 2009   Holiday is offline   #10
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Well, I have a feeling that we may get some answers this week. It seems like Kate is going to get some info from her interrogation of Alice. Of course, it could still not happen for a few more issues. I am really excited for this issue.
ddf
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It appears that some interesting characters in the past may have appeared at the end of the book. Very cool indeed. We don't know if that is who it is yet, but it appears that they are back.
 
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