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Old July 23rd, 2006   Chris D. is offline   #48
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Chris D.
The Mogolicious Horseman

 
joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,892

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Chris -- What else do you call making a judgment based on gender?

"We'll market to men, because we assume women don't buy comics. They are an extremist minority, so there's no reason to reach out to them. No reason to include them. We've never been friendly to them, they don't buy, so we can assume they just don't like the medium."

This is a sexist argument. You can't get around it. You certainly can't say that someone else shouting about female deaths being sexist is wrong, and then apply it to this argument. It doens't work. There aren't women buyers because no one is trying for them.
ddf
Ragnell
You want to claim sexism. You want to see sexism. So that's what you'll see. Any argument otherwise you try to rationalize away. Even when it's objectively debated, that in itself becomes sexist. When it's shown how positively a large # of females are portrayed, it's ignored. When it's shown what the male characters also go through, all of a sudden listing what happens to characters isn't a good argument. But it's a great argument when people start out listing what happens to females. Constantly claiming everytime something negative happens to any female characters is wrong, and in fact that's sexist. I've given examples and there are plenty more of titles with female leads. They have tried for female readers plenty if times.

try[/b] to market her for teenaged girls in book stores?

Is that what's happening? No, it's being marketed for the current audience. They're not reaching out to the teenaged girl democraphic.
ddf
RagnellTake Supergirl for example. Name recognition, teenaged girl version of Superman. This book should be for teenaged girls. There's teenaged girls reading manga in book stores. Hey, why not take Supergirl and [b
Supergirl will be collected in TPB and sold in bookestores so what your claiming doesn't really hold water. Supergirl actually sells well. So putting out a Supergirl or a female lead is not marketing to girls? OK

Going back to Green Lantern, Green Lantern should be for everyone. Everyone should be included.

Look at the answers to these questions. Does everyone feel they are being included?

I specifically worded Q3 as an extremist viewpoint. I expected everyone on this board, at least, to balk at the idea and say no. Split hairs, say it may be sexist. I got "4 Nos, 3 Yes, 2 abstentions and 1 sexist but not misogynistic." And this is not on the Feminist site. This is from here.
ddf
Ragnell
That's bc everyone looks at the "Women in Refridgerators" and thinks it is. Donna death is attributed to Kyle and GL, but had nothing to do with either. Arisia was never meant to really die. Katma's marriage and death is looked on as sexist, but if she wasn't married to John, she wouldn't have even been in the book as much. People complain about Jade and Kyle, but once again she wouldn't have been anywhere if not in the GL book. People complain how she left, but she did bc she was getting to be a main character in another book. People complain how she died, and they can, bc that was crappy.

Alex is the huge one. Once again, how she was portrayed doesn't matter. The fact she was created to die, like a lot of male characters(Abin Sur and Laira's father to name a couple) becomes a cry for the book being misogynistic. What that is really saying is that females do not want to be seen as the males w/ negatives and deaths, but any negative treatment is sexist.
This is not how things should be. If we had more female characters, higher visibility female characters, female characters on the cover who weren't purely there for cheesecake, I'd be willing to put down money that there would be more female readers. But if women don't feel included, if they don't see themselves as more than token characters and fanservice, then why would they be interested?
ddf
Ragnell
There are an enormous # of high visibility female characters in comics. I don't know how many times i have to say this. MANY of them who have or have been given at some time, their own titles. If you don't want to see it fine. That's your choice. I also find it interesting how it's ok for you to pine and oggle over Kyle's butt or if a guy is drawn naked, which is natural and fine, but if guys like to see girls, it's the evil sexism again. Who really has the double standard in their mind?]/QUOTE]

The reason there are very few women in comics is that the industry is not courting them.
ddf
Ragnell
They have tried to get females. Once again they aren't and never have been intersted. It would be the equivalent of trying to market daytime soap operas for men. That being the case, they do make conscious efforts to make viable, strong, interesting female characters and give them there own books. Usually they don't make it. And when they do, usually they aren't huge sellers.
Last edited by Chris D.; July 23rd, 2006 at 11:08 PM.
 
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