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-   -   Johns Confirms Hippolyta was a member of the JSA (http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35299)

hotrod77 September 20th, 2006 06:32 PM

Johns Confirms Hippolyta was a member of the JSA
 
Geoff has finally cleared up the status of Hippolyta in the JSA (not to mention who does and doesn't remember the multiverse). Here's his post in the Dale Eaglesham interview at Newsarama.com:

Actually, the only one who remembers events like that is Power Girl.

Everyone on the JSA, from Earth 2, have vague recollections that there was a multiverse but that's it. DCU history is nearly identical to what it was.

Why is Power Girl the only one with real Earth 2 memories will be explained in Justice Society of America. I think some confusion has come from interpretation of interviews more than the comics themselves.

Hippolyta was a member of JSA, Matrix Supergirl did exist, Etc.

Geoff

holo2 September 20th, 2006 06:45 PM

YES! I really liked this retconn. I know that alot of people had issues with John Byrne's run on Wonder Woman. I personally liked it. I liked the nod that he gave the JSA and I enjoy the fact that this is still the case. Great news!

aflahive September 20th, 2006 06:45 PM

not sure if this is a confirmation, or him giving examples of things that have been cast into confustion in fans heads due to the interent

GLJeans September 20th, 2006 07:03 PM

I liked this retcon too... Hippolyta, can't rember when you weren't there, but it's great to have you back!

Now is it still Wonder W0man at the beginning of the JLA or Black Canary? Is this covered in the ect. or what?

Rajah1 September 20th, 2006 08:36 PM

It sounds like a confirmation to me but I suppose those last lines could be misleading. I was also a fan of this retcon so I hope I'm interpreting those comments correctly. Hippolyta made a great Golden Age Wonder Woman. And since Infinite Crisis didn't bring back the Multiverse (which I think would have been a mistake after all these years but that's just me), I'm cool with Polly retaining that role.

GLJeans, it seems to be Wonder Woman as a League founder, as of Brad Meltzer's JLofA #0. That's one the confirmed tweaks to history.

Kane_fan September 20th, 2006 09:17 PM

What I interpret is that Geoff is giving examples of confusions from interviews. It doesn't sound like he confirms anything.

I'm on the side of Bryne making too many mistakes with the Wonder Woman series. Hippolyta as the golden age Wonder Woman was a horrible mistake IMHO. :o

As JSofA starts up I'm sure will know for sure which, if any, Wonder Woman particpated in the JSofA.

Patrick Gerard September 20th, 2006 10:36 PM

While I think Geoff is saying that these things still happened...

... I'm gonna say, as I have before, that Matrix needs a new origin story.

The Pocket Universe story is tied to a version of the Legion that's three to four reboots old.

And Zod is about to get revamped again.

It's bad enough that Superman met at least two alternate universe Supergirls before the "real" one but the same is essentially true with Zod.

Please don't let a love of past stories clutter up the DCU.

I'd really, REALLY encourage Geoff and DC to retell Matrix's origin in a way that hits the same or similar emotional beats without cluttering things up with a Pocket Universe (which has no reason to exist) or an extra Zod.

I'm not saying that Linda Danvers or the earthborn angels or shapeshifting Matrix need to be erased but I think they desperately need to be contextualized without the Time Trapper or the pre-Crisis Legion being part of that backstory.

Human Bong September 20th, 2006 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard (Post 762924)
While I think Geoff is saying that these things still happened...

... I'm gonna say, as I have before, that Matrix needs a new origin story.

The Pocket Universe story is tied to a version of the Legion that's three to four reboots old.

And Zod is about to get revamped again.

It's bad enough that Superman met at least two alternate universe Supergirls before the "real" one but the same is essentially true with Zod.

Please don't let a love of past stories clutter up the DCU.

I'd really, REALLY encourage Geoff and DC to retell Matrix's origin in a way that hits the same or similar emotional beats without cluttering things up with a Pocket Universe (which has no reason to exist) or an extra Zod.

I'm not saying that Linda Danvers or the earthborn angels or shapeshifting Matrix need to be erased but I think they desperately need to be contextualized without the Time Trapper or the pre-Crisis Legion being part of that backstory.

I doubt she'll get a new origin anytime soon.

Anyways, you don't have to mention the zero hour legion stuff at all. She's simply from an alternate world where clark kent died and Luthor created a the matrix to replace him. Upon that world's destruction she came to ours. The Legion/Zero Hour stuff just makes it cooler to us long time fans.




I thought the Hyppolyta retcon was one of the best ones yet. Never cared about the character until the whole time travel thing.

James Melanson September 20th, 2006 11:28 PM

What a shame. This was a perfect opportunity to undo a terrible mistake, ie, retconning Hippolyta into the Golden Age wonder Woman. Thus elevating her above Diana. A terrible mistake. And a real blow to the unique quality of this character. I hope this can still be undone. Please rethink this Geoff. Diana should be THE Wonder Woman.

There's a reason why Jor-El wasn't retconned into the GA Superman, and Thomas Wayne wasn't rewritten as the GA Batman. Wonder Woman should be in that league. Not retconned into a "daughter of" character. It damages this character tremendously.

Byrne's mistake should be undone.

Frankly, I never understood the Hippolyta love. She had no significant storyline; she mostly served as background color. She had a couple of lines here and there, and swung her sword a couple of times. But other than some great duds, there wasn't really much to write home about. I often think that people liked her better because they could project any personality they wanted onto her; any specificity.

I understand JSA fans-who never liked Wonder Woman-liking Hippy because of the JSA association. But as a Wonder Woman fan, I feel mortified. Sixty years of history down the drain. And one of the most important comics creations, and a feminist icon, reduced to a mother-daughter fight over identity. Yuck.

Jake1823 September 20th, 2006 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Melanson (Post 762990)
What a shame. This was a perfect opportunity to undo a terrible mistake, ie, retconning Hippolyta into the Golden Age wonder Woman. Thus elevating her above Diana. A terrible mistake. And a real blow to the unique quality of this character. I hope this can still be undone. Please rethink this Geoff. Diana should be THE Wonder Woman.

There's a reason why Jor-El wasn't retconned into the GA Superman, and Thomas Wayne wasn't rewritten as the GA Batman. Wonder Woman should be in that league. Not retconned into a "daughter of" character. It damages this character tremendously.

Byrne's mistake should be undone.

I agree. WW loses that certain unique something that the Trinity has now. At least imo.

Sk8maven September 21st, 2006 12:12 AM

We do have a problem here. Perez' revamp of Wonder Woman changed Diana so drastically that, no matter what got retconned, she could never again match the personality shown by the Golden Age Wonder Woman.

The advantage of Hippolyta was that she WAS more of a "blank slate" and so there was less trouble matching her up to the Golden Age original.

The only real hitch was that time travel angle - which was Byrne compounding a felony he had previously committed (killing off Diana). It was the best he could do at the time - and like the "Pocket Universe" patch applied to the Legion (by Paul Levitz over another Byrne destruction), it wasn't good enough.

Given the situation as it now is (Diana as frigid virginal "Goddess-on-Earth"), it would make no sense to try to plug her back in. She wouldn't, couldn't respond to the other characters and situations the way that was originally recorded.

The Golden Age Wonder Woman was no Goddess, but a fully real and very human woman. Someone who could get down and dirty with "the boys", play right alongside them, laugh with them (and occasionally at them), and even humor them when necessary. Diana can't do that any more. She's been placed so high on a pedestal that she's been dehumanized.

I have not heard that the Golden Age Superman or Batman have been fully reinserted into DCU continuity - at most, some of the JSA remember that they used to know those guys, when their world was different. So there is no real comparison.

It's really funny how many of the same fans who howl that "Wonder Woman should be Diana and no one else!" are fully accepting of the retcon that made the Silver/Bronze/Modern Age Black Canary a completely separate person from the Golden Age one (and incidentally eliminated a horrible Mopee-class retcon that made her nothing but a vessel for her mother's memories - eeeuuuwww!!!).

Maven

Patrick Gerard September 21st, 2006 01:23 AM

Well, Wonder Woman is a founding member of the JLA again and her pre-Crisis history seems to be melded with her Perez history now.

She wore the bicycle shorts and strap boots when she founded the JLA and even lost her powers circa the Satellite era and fought crime in the white jumpsuit.

I'd really just assume they pull one last retcon (keep in mind that the Polly stuff tied into the much derided GENESIS anyway) and say that Diana was the Golden Age Wonder Woman via time travel.

I suppose that messes with Donna Troy's origins even more though.

Blackhawkk September 21st, 2006 01:32 AM

Unlike "Crisis On Infinite Earths", "Infinite Crisis" didn't change anything. We're back to status quo and the whole purpose of "Infinite Crisis" was nothing?:wtf:

Except to kill off the earth-2 Superman... still waiting for the major changes.

k26dp September 21st, 2006 09:26 AM

Could the "purpose" of Infinite Crisis be nothing more than telling a big story? Why does there have to be "major changes"?

Matches September 21st, 2006 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8maven (Post 763049)
It's really funny how many of the same fans who howl that "Wonder Woman should be Diana and no one else!" are fully accepting of the retcon that made the Silver/Bronze/Modern Age Black Canary a completely separate person from the Golden Age one (and incidentally eliminated a horrible Mopee-class retcon that made her nothing but a vessel for her mother's memories - eeeuuuwww!!!).

Maven

I thought that story was about the creepiest thing I ever read. A fine example of Roy Thomas at his worst - constructing some bizarre, contrived solution to a "problem" that he and about 10 other people on Earth cared about. Having Superman show up randomly at the end to then reveal that he knew all along was unintentionally hilarious. ("Uh Supes? Glad you showed up to add some overdone exposition here, but we really coulda used you to.. y'know... help fight the bad guy? Oh and by the way, thanks for letting me walk around for years pretending to be my mom and with memories of having sex with my dad. You're a real pal.")

mmk123 September 21st, 2006 11:19 AM

I like the fact the Hyppolyte is still the JSA Wonder Woman. Why change history once again. I do not see where it is important for the JSA to have a Superman or Batman but WOnder Woman has always been an important part of the JSA. I thought that was a great change that John Byrne did during his run by making her the JSA Wonder Woman.


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