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-   -   Interesting Batgirl related trend lately (http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34988)

Drink September 19th, 2006 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealdark (Post 760198)
Wait...Cass was illiterate before?

Yup. Her unique training, while giving her boarderline Meta abilities in combat, made her unable to read, and early on, even talk. You see, her father taught her nothing but fighting since she was a baby.

To get the technical aspect of it, her brain is wired differently than a normal human's. Paticularly the speech centres.

That's part of why there's a big stink about the story over in Robin. It suggested that Cass was taught the Navajo language by Batman, which requires an understanding of the English language too, when she obviously couldn't have. Even the "Lazarus Pit fixed her brain" excuse doesn't solve that problem.

And anyway, these started out mainly to vent fanboy rage in something other than an essay on the Internet. In fact the first one on the link pretty well showed the futility of it. But even if the story turns out good, it doesn't mean we can't make fun of it along the way.:) Also, we cover a lot of other stuff in comics too besides this particular plot, but Cass is just the central figure of it all.

michealdark September 19th, 2006 09:31 PM

I need to be linked to your site. And thanks for the insight into Cass' character

Drink September 19th, 2006 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealdark (Post 761492)
I need to be linked to your site. And thanks for the insight into Cass' character

No problem.

And the closest we really got to a site at the moment is the link that I posted earlier on this thread here.

Although many have suggested that we make a site.

david September 19th, 2006 09:58 PM

Quote:

Yeah, and we've told them time and time again that we don't care about that, we don't like what we're seeing so far or where it looks to be going.
That "we've told them" should be "I've told them" since I don't see anyone besides you complaining about the changes to Batgirl III. :D

Drink September 19th, 2006 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david (Post 761536)
That "we've told them" should be "I've told them" since I don't see anyone besides you complaining about the changes to Batgirl III. :D

I've complained about it. Therefore there's at least two (Obviously there's more than that), and thus 'we' is acceptable.

Ravenwing263 September 19th, 2006 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david (Post 761536)
That "we've told them" should be "I've told them" since I don't see anyone besides you complaining about the changes to Batgirl III. :D

Then you really haven't been paying attention.

Ohoni September 20th, 2006 04:11 AM

Quote:

That "we've told them" should be "I've told them" since I don't see anyone besides you complaining about the changes to Batgirl III.
Seriously, or are you just messing with me? I know I've seen a ton of people upset bout it, even in this thread alone. Did you even read this thread or do you just search for posts I make so you can snark on them?

david September 20th, 2006 09:11 AM

Quote:

Seriously, or are you just messing with me? I know I've seen a ton of people upset bout it, even in this thread alone. Did you even read this thread or do you just search for posts I make so you can snark on them?
People seem to be forgetting who's book it is - it's not "The Adventures of Batgirl" guest starring Robin but "The Adventures of Robin" guest starring Batgirl.

Drink September 20th, 2006 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david (Post 761877)
People seem to be forgetting who's book it is - it's not "The Adventures of Batgirl" guest starring Robin but "The Adventures of Robin" guest starring Batgirl.

While true, Batgirl played a very large role in the story. Her characterization was key in making the whole thing make sense.

Rajah1 September 20th, 2006 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david (Post 761877)
People seem to be forgetting who's book it is - it's not "The Adventures of Batgirl" guest starring Robin but "The Adventures of Robin" guest starring Batgirl.

You keep saying that but I don't see that as an excuse. If a character guest stars in another character's series, that doesn't make it okay to disregard everything about that guest star. Like I said on another thread, you like Manhunter, right? If I write Manhunter into another book, can I make her a psychotic schizo who guts and beheads her own son? Would you be okay with that? It's not Manhunter's book, after all. :p

And it's waaaaaay more than one person complaining about the changes to Batgirl. On this thread alone, there's David, Drink, Ohoni, and me and that's not counting other threads or other message boards. A lot of people are pissed off.

If indeed we haven't seen the full story and this somehow makes sense in the end, we will stand corrected. As of now, it seems completely illogical, is full of holes, and is very upsetting to the character's fans. Hence, our frustration. I think these Casstoons are a great way of venting that though.

Rajah1 September 20th, 2006 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajah1 (Post 762130)
You keep saying that but I don't see that as an excuse. If a character guest stars in another character's series, that doesn't make it okay to disregard everything about that guest star. Like I said on another thread, you like Manhunter, right? If I write Manhunter into another book, can I make her a psychotic schizo who guts and beheads her own son? Would you be okay with that? It's not Manhunter's book, after all. :p

And it's waaaaaay more than one person complaining about the changes to Batgirl. On this thread alone, there's Drink, Ohoni, and me and that's not counting other threads or other message boards. A lot of people are pissed off.

If indeed we haven't seen the full story and this somehow makes sense in the end, we will stand corrected. As of now, it seems completely illogical, is full of holes, and is very upsetting to the character's fans. Hence, our frustration. I think these Casstoons are a great way of venting that though.

Okay, that's what my message should have looked like. Not sure why I put your name on the list of people complaining about the changes when I was talking to you, David. Slip of the fingers. (I hate that the "edit post" function apparently disappears after a few hours. Who came up with that idea?)

david September 20th, 2006 09:05 PM

Quote:

You keep saying that but I don't see that as an excuse. If a character guest stars in another character's series, that doesn't make it okay to disregard everything about that guest star.
What about "The book got boring" towards the end as an excuse then (Mad Dog, anyone?).

Drink September 20th, 2006 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david (Post 762872)
What about "The book got boring" towards the end as an excuse then (Mad Dog, anyone?).

That's all a matter of opinion of course, but even if it was 'boring', that doesn't mean you should grossly mischaracterise her in her next appearance.

Brian LaBelle September 20th, 2006 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drink (Post 761211)
That's part of why there's a big stink about the story over in Robin. It suggested that Cass was taught the Navajo language by Batman, which requires an understanding of the English language too, when she obviously couldn't have.

I'm 99.9% sure that the Navajo's had the ability to communicate with each other prior to the Europeans showing up. ;)

It would require a knowledge of A language.

She was taught to interpret movement, posture and body language as a language and once you know one language, you CAN learn another.

It's possible (for whatever reason) that Navajo was an easier "bridge" to verbal communication than English would be. Especially if you ask foreigners learning english what a ridiculously complicated language it is in comparison to many others.

Drink September 20th, 2006 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian LaBelle (Post 762923)
I'm 99.9% sure that the Navajo's had the ability to communicate with each other prior to the Europeans showing up. ;)

It would require a knowledge of A language.

She was taught to interpret movement, posture and body language as a language and once you know one language, you CAN learn another.

It's possible (for whatever reason) that Navajo was an easier "bridge" to verbal communication than English would be. Especially if you ask foreigners learning english what a ridiculously complicated language it is in comparison to many others.

I meant in terms of using it as a code.

And up to the very last of her series, Cassandra could barely read any language, English or Navajo. Barbara tested her about a half dozen issues before the series ended (and Cass never had contact with the Bat-family after this), and she painstakingly read the sentence "Tom sees Sue" over two panels. And Nyssa at one point told her that Batman was keeping her ignorant intentionally by not teaching her to read.

So unless she spent the whole year writing that note, it makes no sense.

Ohoni September 20th, 2006 10:42 PM

Quote:

People seem to be forgetting who's book it is - it's not "The Adventures of Batgirl" guest starring Robin but "The Adventures of Robin" guest starring Batgirl.
Yeah, but that's neither here nor there. Just because it's not Batgirl's book doesn't mean that she should be portrayed completely out of character. It's a shared universe, characters are supposed to be fairly consistant from book to book.

Quote:

What about "The book got boring" towards the end as an excuse then (Mad Dog, anyone?).
Nope, that's no excuse either. Plenty of books hit dull points, then they are fixed. Or not. Whatever. It was still selling better than a bunch of other books that made it through IC fairly unscathed.

Quote:


She was taught to interpret movement, posture and body language as a language and once you know one language, you CAN learn another.

It's possible (for whatever reason) that Navajo was an easier "bridge" to verbal communication than English would be. Especially if you ask foreigners learning english what a ridiculously complicated language it is in comparison to many others.
Highly doubtful. By most accounts Navajo is one of the hardest languages to learn. Cassie had difficulty with ALL Verbal and writen languages, capable only of simple, almost child-like speech, and was probably on a first or second grade reading level, if that. She definitely didn't know anything beyond the most basic English writing prior to IC, and with Batman gone during 52 he was unlikely to have taught it to her since then.


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