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-   -   What DC's Rebirth needs to be (http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97645)

BrianT February 10th, 2016 07:55 AM

What DC's Rebirth needs to be
 
Here I give my thoughts on what Rebirth needs to achieve if DC wants a chance at restoring itself in the minds of readers and retailers:

http://www.examiner.com/article/what...th-needs-to-be

Might seem like a no brainer, but considering DC's recent track record, getting back to basics needs to be said.

Thoughts?

mego joe February 10th, 2016 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianT (Post 1905645)
Here I give my thoughts on what Rebirth needs to achieve if DC wants a chance at restoring itself in the minds of readers and retailers:

http://www.examiner.com/article/what...th-needs-to-be

Might seem like a no brainer, but considering DC's recent track record, getting back to basics needs to be said.

Thoughts?

Nice article. I wonder if rebirth is not going to be an opportunity to tell origins of all the new 52 versions of the characters. And in doing so incorporate whatever they want to from the movie in film universes. It may also allow them to expand and add in Characters and history that fans have missed but now will be reinserted.

Mr. Wrong February 10th, 2016 12:49 PM

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

However, and I may be the exception and not the rule, the New 52 did something that I wouldn't have expected: By causing me to break off from following their characters, some of which I had followed through thick and thin (Hawkman, the Creeper, Aquaman, Capt. Marvel, Dr. Fate, etc.), I realized that I was fine without them. In fact, I ended up realizing that I was kinda burned out on capes 'n' tights comics in general; ESPECIALLY ones that exist in shared universes with frequent crossovers and references to events outside of a given title's main storylines.

I may be an anomaly in this regard, but unless DC broke out the hard nostalgia stuff - like a visual return to the 1982 style guide, lots of one-and-done stories, way less decompressed storytelling, genuinely all-ages content, and a re-commitment to keeping their prices down in the $2.99-$3.50 range, I just don't see diving back in. Especially when I'm enjoying titles from other publishers that I would have to drop to free up the money.

They *could* rope me back in with some non-spandex genre stuff, if done right (and if sufficiently cordoned off from their big in-universe shenanigans).
Especially Sword & Sorcery, Weird War, and/or Weird Western.

BrianT February 10th, 2016 11:02 PM

Thanks for reading!
Quote:

Originally Posted by mego joe (Post 1905647)
Nice article. I wonder if rebirth is not going to be an opportunity to tell origins of all the new 52 versions of the characters. And in doing so incorporate whatever they want to from the movie in film universes. It may also allow them to expand and add in Characters and history that fans have missed but now will be reinserted.

Kind of like ZERO HOUR with ZERO MONTH afterward?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong (Post 1905648)
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

However, and I may be the exception and not the rule, the New 52 did something that I wouldn't have expected: By causing me to break off from following their characters, some of which I had followed through thick and thin (Hawkman, the Creeper, Aquaman, Capt. Marvel, Dr. Fate, etc.), I realized that I was fine without them. In fact, I ended up realizing that I was kinda burned out on capes 'n' tights comics in general; ESPECIALLY ones that exist in shared universes with frequent crossovers and references to events outside of a given title's main storylines.

I may be an anomaly in this regard, but unless DC broke out the hard nostalgia stuff - like a visual return to the 1982 style guide, lots of one-and-done stories, way less decompressed storytelling, genuinely all-ages content, and a re-commitment to keeping their prices down in the $2.99-$3.50 range, I just don't see diving back in. Especially when I'm enjoying titles from other publishers that I would have to drop to free up the money.

They *could* rope me back in with some non-spandex genre stuff, if done right (and if sufficiently cordoned off from their big in-universe shenanigans).
Especially Sword & Sorcery, Weird War, and/or Weird Western.

That's like the point I touched on at the end about there being a lot of great comics out there. People don't need to read DC books, they have to give readers a reason to do so. Plenty of equal or better options out there than to stick with something one isn't loving.

I would love a return to the 1982 Style Guide. That's Iconic! Some of the licensed products still sport it. Always great to see.

Amentep February 11th, 2016 07:37 AM

I would be neutral on the return to the style guide - I like a wide range of art styles so I'm not beholden to the classics.

Although I was thinking the other day that if there was a person who drew like Swanderson trying to break into comics today, they'd never get work from the big 2 and that made me kinda sad.

Anyhow I'm always willing to be swayed by a good comic. Certainly I've liked more of DC's recent output than I have for a few years.

mego joe February 11th, 2016 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong (Post 1905648)
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

However, and I may be the exception and not the rule, the New 52 did something that I wouldn't have expected: By causing me to break off from following their characters, some of which I had followed through thick and thin (Hawkman, the Creeper, Aquaman, Capt. Marvel, Dr. Fate, etc.), I realized that I was fine without them. In fact, I ended up realizing that I was kinda burned out on capes 'n' tights comics in general; ESPECIALLY ones that exist in shared universes with frequent crossovers and references to events outside of a given title's main storylines.

I may be an anomaly in this regard, but unless DC broke out the hard nostalgia stuff - like a visual return to the 1982 style guide, lots of one-and-done stories, way less decompressed storytelling, genuinely all-ages content, and a re-commitment to keeping their prices down in the $2.99-$3.50 range, I just don't see diving back in. Especially when I'm enjoying titles from other publishers that I would have to drop to free up the money.

They *could* rope me back in with some non-spandex genre stuff, if done right (and if sufficiently cordoned off from their big in-universe shenanigans).
Especially Sword & Sorcery, Weird War, and/or Weird Western.

I know what you mean. I think I enjoyed the opportunity to branch out genrewise. The Nu 52 books I enjoyed the most were the genre stuff. Swamp Thing, Demon Knghts. And the independent stuff I tried- King Conan, Velvet. And I probably wouldn't have tried Afterlife with Archie and Sabrina.

I still get some DC books, but they are on a short leash. Still think Archie is the most exciting publisher. Just wish they could get the horror and superhero books on a regular schedule.

Call Me El February 11th, 2016 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong (Post 1905648)
...ESPECIALLY ones that exist in shared universes with frequent crossovers and references to events outside of a given title's main storylines...

As popular as the shared universe concept supposedly is - and I see that even now they're hinting that the newly acquired Hanna-Barbera line are all connected - in my opinion it's the single most alienating aspect of comics. If one wants to read JLA or one of its many variants that's fine, but the solo books should stay in their own bubbles.

BrianT February 11th, 2016 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amentep (Post 1905652)
I would be neutral on the return to the style guide - I like a wide range of art styles so I'm not beholden to the classics.

Although I was thinking the other day that if there was a person who drew like Swanderson trying to break into comics today, they'd never get work from the big 2 and that made me kinda sad.

Anyhow I'm always willing to be swayed by a good comic. Certainly I've liked more of DC's recent output than I have for a few years.

You're right. I wouldn't like a full return to the '82 Style Guide, but I'd dig seeing a book or three in that style. Kinda like BATMAN '66 or WONDER WOMAN '77. Call it DC SUPER POWERS '82 or something.

WeirdoLegionnaire February 12th, 2016 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Call Me El (Post 1905658)
As popular as the shared universe concept supposedly is - and I see that even now they're hinting that the newly acquired Hanna-Barbera line are all connected - in my opinion it's the single most alienating aspect of comics. If one wants to read JLA or one of its many variants that's fine, but the solo books should stay in their own bubbles.

To be fair to DC, how many crossovers have they actually done since the relaunch? They've all been pretty self-contained - nothing like Infinite Crisis where EVERY book was affected, outside of the special September events like the #0 issues. the Future's End jump, and Forever Evil.

I feel like if you read, say, Superman - you're going to get a story starring Superman. If there's a guest star, it'll be a special event and they'll explain who the character is.

Mr. Wrong February 12th, 2016 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Call Me El (Post 1905658)
As popular as the shared universe concept supposedly is - and I see that even now they're hinting that the newly acquired Hanna-Barbera line are all connected - in my opinion it's the single most alienating aspect of comics. If one wants to read JLA or one of its many variants that's fine, but the solo books should stay in their own bubbles.

I really like the way Dynamite handles their licensed properties in this regard. The Shadow gets to team up with The Avenger and the Black Bat and Miss Fury, etc. in "Masks"... but the events in those team-up/crossover series are NEVER referenced at all in the solo Shadow series. I think most characters work best in their own world, as the center of their own fictional universe (Marvel Family is a perfect example... Capt. Marvel should be the preeminent hero of his world, not a runner-up to Superman).

I think back on stupid things going on in individual characters' titles being forced into JLA... Morrison's JLA run for example, had to accommodate Electric Blue Boogaloo Superman... why? Morrison probably ended up coming up with some of the most interesting uses for that power set, but still... You JUST launched a big deal, iconic JLA with all the major players for the first time since 1984, and just a few issues in, Superman looks stupid, and story time has to be wasted on explaining the annual dumb-Superman-stunt that has nothing to do with the JLA series. Wonder Woman is "dead" during Byrne's run on her series for a few issues, and even though absolutely no one believes that is a permanent situation, Hippolyta-as-WW has to fill in for Diana in JLA. Another distraction, though at least less visually jarring than Blue-Lightning-Onesie Superman. Right dead in the middle of an already somewhat non-linear and conceptually dense story ("Rock of Ages"), we careen off the tracks for a two-page reference to the "Genesis" crossover event, which then goes completely unmentioned for the rest of the multi-issue story. Annoying.

I miss the days when the vast majority of team-ups occurred in either team books, or team-up books (Brave & the Bold, DC Presents, Worlds Finest). Yes, Batman teaming up with Kamandi or Sgt. Rock is fun. No, Kamandi or Sgt. Rock should not show up in Batman or Detective Comics.

Amentep February 12th, 2016 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong (Post 1905666)
Yes, Batman teaming up with Kamandi or Sgt. Rock is fun. No, Kamandi or Sgt. Rock should not show up in Batman or Detective Comics.

Oh come on, Kamandi and Sgt. Rock should totally show up in Detective comics...as a back-up strip solving crime as a buddy cop team! :)

(not serious btw)

Part of how Marvel always felt connected wasn't through crossovers but by stuff that could easily be inserted; the oft sighted Spidey swinging through New York and Daredevil is on a rooftop looking off panel. Spidey doesn't notice and an editorial comment says "Why is Daredevil on this rooftop - check out Daredevil 231". You get the idea that yeah the world was shared, but I didn't have to read Daredevil to understand the Spidey story.

JRM February 12th, 2016 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wrong (Post 1905648)
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

However, and I may be the exception and not the rule, the New 52 did something that I wouldn't have expected: By causing me to break off from following their characters, some of which I had followed through thick and thin (Hawkman, the Creeper, Aquaman, Capt. Marvel, Dr. Fate, etc.), I realized that I was fine without them. In fact, I ended up realizing that I was kinda burned out on capes 'n' tights comics in general; ESPECIALLY ones that exist in shared universes with frequent crossovers and references to events outside of a given title's main storylines.

I may be an anomaly in this regard, but unless DC broke out the hard nostalgia stuff - like a visual return to the 1982 style guide, lots of one-and-done stories, way less decompressed storytelling, genuinely all-ages content, and a re-commitment to keeping their prices down in the $2.99-$3.50 range, I just don't see diving back in. Especially when I'm enjoying titles from other publishers that I would have to drop to free up the money.

They *could* rope me back in with some non-spandex genre stuff, if done right (and if sufficiently cordoned off from their big in-universe shenanigans).
Especially Sword & Sorcery, Weird War, and/or Weird Western.

Well said, nothing I really could add.

The current braintrust killed my interest in their product. Now generally enjoying going back to all those books on my shelf and re-reading them again.

I don't actually think I'm missing much, but saving a couple of grand over a calender year ...

Jim

Amentep February 12th, 2016 03:34 PM

I will say that any relaunch with the current DC head honchos in charge is always going to be treated with a bit of skepticism since they've shown time and time again that they don't really have a visionary plan.

That said, I'll always read a good comic and DC has put out some even at my personal lowest ebb with them (about 2-3 years ago when I think I was down to two DC books for the first time since...1986 or so?)

Foggy's Pal February 12th, 2016 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeirdoLegionnaire (Post 1905665)
To be fair to DC, how many crossovers have they actually done since the relaunch? They've all been pretty self-contained - nothing like Infinite Crisis where EVERY book was affected, outside of the special September events like the #0 issues. the Future's End jump, and Forever Evil.

I feel like if you read, say, Superman - you're going to get a story starring Superman. If there's a guest star, it'll be a special event and they'll explain who the character is.

What's really interesting about this post is that you mention Infinite Crisis as your example. What follows Infinite Crisis, which was successful, is where the wheels fell off. (outside of Batman/Green Lantern/52) Leading up to and including Infinite Crisis, DC was actually competing with Marvel month to month, sharing the top 10 equally. After IC, beginning with One Year Later, DC faltered. From there, they tumbled until the New 52- short gains and then back to the bottom.

John February 12th, 2016 10:39 PM

IMO, it's pretty simple. DO NOT mess with the classics. Remember "New Coke" and what a disaster that was? Well, DC is doing the same thing. Superman and Wonder Woman should NEVER really change in appearance. Maybe small changes, but nothing more. Batman is a little different. He has had costume changes over the years, but is basically the same.

I'm not holding my breath on this "rebirth". It seems like just another cheap ploy to boost sales. YAWN!!!! Been there, done that. Prior to the "New 52" I was buying almost EVERY TITLE the DC produced...EVERY MONTH...for the past 30 YEARS! Today? One or two books a month..tops. I have totally given up on the Dreadful Duo of Didio and Lee.

ronaldj February 13th, 2016 05:20 AM

that coke thing was in the fall of 1985 and I still don't drink it.....but anyway the comics will change as the powers to be want them too...if they lose a few readers oh well....my reading list just keeps getting smaller and smaller...on the other hand I find myself rereading many old books, that I have or find for a dollar.....imo should they tie into the tv or movies or even to each other no, but who am I one reader .....again I think they are looking for short term readers who buy for a couple years and go on their way...not like us die hard's who have read from one crisis to another


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