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-   -   So, um, what if DC undid all the reboots and brought back the pre-COIE Universe? (http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94436)

imarriedsatanII April 13th, 2013 11:46 PM

So, um, what if DC undid all the reboots and brought back the pre-COIE Universe?
 
Heresy, I know.

Think about it, though. There are several ways to approach this in order to please the most people, which = $$$.

Let's call a duck a duck. DC has pi$$ed off a whole lot of readers over the years, and their endless reboots and retcons have chased away longtime readers... myself included. My pull has gone from over 30 books a month (almost 100% DC) up until post-Flashpoint, and I am now reading quite a few Marvel books again after a loooooooong absence. For me, that spells things out plainly.

So, let's undo all the "fixes" they have attempted over the years. Put someone with some idea of how fans' brains operate in charge and have them helm the project. Make it a grand event. I would like to suggest creating a single title for just that purpose. If DC chooses to let fans in on the significance of the book or not, leave it up to them. They could just tease with something along the lines of "Read this series! It will have long lasting and grand implications in the end." You get where I'm going.

Also, so as not to cheese off readers post 1985, make it a universe/time spanning epic. Pick out the characters that are proven winners/have a significant fan base. Get Booster Gold and Rip Hunter to gather up Batwoman, Blue Beetle (Jaime), Barry Allen, Bart Allen from pre-Flashpoint, Donna Troy, and whomever else is worth carrying over to the pre-COIE Universe, and have them journey to put things right. This way the readers can have their cake and eat it, too. We've got the multiverse back, we can bring in newer, fan loved characters, and spin the rest off on another Earth in the Multiverse.

I vote "Yes!"

Thoughts?

leonmallett April 14th, 2013 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imarriedsatanII (Post 1834070)
Heresy, I know.

Think about it, though. There are several ways to approach this in order to please the most people, which = $$$.

Let's call a duck a duck. DC has pi$$ed off a whole lot of readers over the years, and their endless reboots and retcons have chased away longtime readers... myself included. My pull has gone from over 30 books a month (almost 100% DC) up until post-Flashpoint, and I am now reading quite a few Marvel books again after a loooooooong absence. For me, that spells things out plainly.

So, let's undo all the "fixes" they have attempted over the years. Put someone with some idea of how fans' brains operate in charge and have them helm the project. Make it a grand event. I would like to suggest creating a single title for just that purpose. If DC chooses to let fans in on the significance of the book or not, leave it up to them. They could just tease with something along the lines of "Read this series! It will have long lasting and grand implications in the end." You get where I'm going.

Also, so as not to cheese off readers post 1985, make it a universe/time spanning epic. Pick out the characters that are proven winners/have a significant fan base. Get Booster Gold and Rip Hunter to gather up Batwoman, Blue Beetle (Jaime), Barry Allen, Bart Allen from pre-Flashpoint, Donna Troy, and whomever else is worth carrying over to the pre-COIE Universe, and have them journey to put things right. This way the readers can have their cake and eat it, too. We've got the multiverse back, we can bring in newer, fan loved characters, and spin the rest off on another Earth in the Multiverse.

I vote "Yes!"

Thoughts?

5 thoughts:

1. Th team suggested just sounds like a variation of Marvel's Exiles (rather than the original Malibu Exiles).

2. Each time someone at DC (usually Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison) has tried to unpick parts of the reboots, that has arguably added to problem; if others do not play with the same toys with the same vision of the person who unpicked the reboot problems ensue (witness the fixing of Hawkman and then breaking those fixes for the umpteenth time).

3. Does looking backwards guarantee good stories now? I am not so sure. DC have largely lost me as a reader (3 regular books, probably 2 soon), but their obsessive focus on continuity - clearing the slate or adding back in what was swept away has been so much front and centre that I feel they lost many, many opportunities to tell good stories.

4. Following on from that, telling good stories should be the focus, not recurrent continuity fixes. Advocating yet another continuity fix is arguably not the way - they have already divided the fan-base 4-5 times from 1985 onward with continuity shifting events, and I do not see how that can be reconciled, how they can un-divide those divisions by creating more division and looking backwards.

5. And finally, there was a different tonality to the silver age; do fans want current DC obsessions of sex and violence applied to those characters? Think about how Ted Kord went out - the final death of silver age maybe?

Bizarro #98 April 14th, 2013 03:23 AM

Here's how it works:

1. DC reboots.

2. Elements of the preboot universe gradually start working their way back into the reboot universe.

3. It gets to the point where both universes are considered to be parts of one big history.

4. Repeat.

Seriously, by the time DC did Flashpoint, it was like Crisis on Infinite Earths had never happened. The multiverse was back, Bat-Mite was back, multiple colors of kryptonite were back. Everything that DC used CoIE to get rid of eventually found it's way back. By that point, even stories like "The Caveman from Krypton" were being acknowledged as part of history again.

So it's not really necessary to ask DC to bring back the pre-CoIE universe. It had already come back. And it will again. As will the pre-Flashpoint universe. Slowly, gradually, piece by piece. But it'll happen.

Outside_85 April 14th, 2013 03:29 AM

In essence they 'undid' COIE with Infinite Crisis.

Sp33df0rc3 April 14th, 2013 04:03 AM

Also, going back to Pre-COIE means that you have multiple earths again, and that means the JSA is still on a different earth, as is Captain Marvel and the Charlton characters etc etc. IMO, if you're going to undo it, just go back to the pre-flashpoint, which had all those world integrated into one. I never really got what the anger was over COIE, since all it did was integrate all the characters into one world, which makes way more sense. Pre-COIE is just a confusing mess, hence why COIE happened in the first place.

Eric Q April 14th, 2013 04:07 AM

I rather they let continuity take a backseat and take an All Star approach. Let anything in the property's mythology be available to be used. Make it reader friendly and treat each issue/story as if it were the creator's last. Crossovers, events, etc. can be done but they need creator approval.

Gremlin April 14th, 2013 04:42 AM

1 thought, it would mean I would come back to comics...

X-

Gremlin April 14th, 2013 04:43 AM

Although, I did start reading MADMAN again, recently...


x-

Alan April 14th, 2013 08:50 AM

1985 was 28 years ago. Lots of comic buyers weren't even born then, so you are looking at something which only appeals to the over 40's.

Is that really where we should be heading?

It's my era too, so I know what you are getting at, and I was perfectly happy with the pre-Crisis era in some ways. But actually lots of it was boring as hell, and going backwards is never a great idea.

And even you are happy to tamper with it to include your own favourites (Jaime as Blue Beetle rather than Ted Kord for instance), so it will never please everyone as we all have our own ideal DC world.

So stop worrying and let the writers etc get on with it, for good or bad.

There is nothing wrong with buying good comics from all companies. I do, and would buy more from all if I could afford it. There is a lot of good stuff out there, including from DC.

Alan April 14th, 2013 10:50 AM

And also once you bring it back, what then? As soon as you start writing new stories you alter what is there, so it changes, perhaps (probably in fact) in ways you personally may not like. Does everything have to stay exactly as it was? How boring is that going to be.

Not all change is bad, just as not all of them are good.

Other than the fact we had multiple earths, I can barely remember where we were beforehand. I know we had the Detroit JLA and I certainly don't want THAT back.

SmilingKnight April 14th, 2013 11:18 AM

I wouldn't buy any dc books if they went all the way back to pre-crisis because none of my favourite characters would be around: Tim Drake, Steph Brown, Connor Hawke, Kyle Raynor and Wally West.

Of course a lot of those aren't around now, and I don't buy any dc books currently so they could go ahead for all it matters to me.
Or more to the point, for all I matter to them as far as publishing decisions are concerned.

Mark MacMillan April 14th, 2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outside_85 (Post 1834079)
In essence they 'undid' COIE with Infinite Crisis.

Disagree. To me, it was more like 1986 to 1991/92 again after Infinite Crisis (more emphasis on characters and concepts like the retooling of the Charlton and Fawcett characters and concepts, Checkmate, Booster Gold, etc, having their own books again, a new Flash, multiple Earth GL's and GL books, etc,) with a lot of the same pre-IC trappings.

As far as multiple universes go, I never found multiple universes confusing when I was little reading my family's old books, and I know most kids don't either since cartoons like Ben 10, Generator Rex, TMNT, G.I. Joe, etc, have all dealt with multiple universes.

Same with Anime (like Full Metal Alchemist for example) and TV Shows like Sliders, Star Trek, Fringe, etc.

As to the OP's question. No, I don't want to go back to the Bronze Age/pre-1985.

I don't want to go back to pre-FP either.

I want to be provided with entertaining books to read. They don't all necessarily have to be my cup of tea, but as long as quality effort was put into the crafting of each direction and book being offered by the publisher, I'm sure I could find some more things to like amongst their selection of comics than I am currently.

So my vote is for more line wide quality and substance.

DC made their bed. Now deal with it DC and try to make something good out of it, because after 30yrs of dividing your fanbase with each event you have put out that should know by now that you can only please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people, all of the time.

HushedRuin April 14th, 2013 12:51 PM

What if DC scheduled a massive reboot of everything....

... got an all-star roster of established veterans, current stars, and rising talent...

... with a concrete, established timeline of events in every hero's life...

... and aimed at fans of all corners - kids/adults/teens, veteran fans/new fans, women/men...?

Rather, USE THE MULTIVERSE AND STOP WAITING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

Mark MacMillan April 14th, 2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmilingKnight (Post 1834111)
I wouldn't buy any dc books if they went all the way back to pre-crisis because none of my favourite characters would be around: Tim Drake, Steph Brown, Connor Hawke, Kyle Raynor and Wally West.

Wally West was around pre-1985 before CoIE ended the Bronze Age. He was in college and testified against Barry during his murder trial.

BTW, Kyle was created in 94/95, is 19 real years old and he's still around.

Mark MacMillan April 14th, 2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HushedRuin (Post 1834186)
What if DC scheduled a massive reboot of everything....

... got an all-star roster of established veterans, current stars, and rising talent...

... with a concrete, established timeline of events in every hero's life...

... and aimed at fans of all corners - kids/adults/teens, veteran fans/new fans, women/men...?

Rather, USE THE MULTIVERSE AND STOP WAITING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

Lol. Yes, that could work for me.

JSAaddict April 14th, 2013 02:07 PM

i vote : "yes" just to see the pre-crisis JSA/earth 2 with Rex Tyler, Johnny Thunder, the grey templed Superman, the Star Spangled Kid, Hawkman as their leader, Al Pratt....and all the gang.
no offense to James Robinson, his book is fantastic (it's the only DC book i'm purchasing currently) but i miss the classic JSA, i really do.


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