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View Full Version : Batman#639 **spoilers**


Madison Lee
April 27th, 2005, 08:10 PM
Batman goes on a search to find out how Jason could have returned.
In doing so we get some GREAT Bat-moments!:
-Zatanna-
Bats calls on Zee and travels to a Lazarus Pit, and tells Zee how much he trusts her...not much.
-Green Arrow-
Bats talks to Ollie about his return from the grave and tells him he has no time for his attitude. And tells GA that he knows it isnt because of something he*Batman* did, so it must be something Ollie did....ouch!!!

Lundonj
April 27th, 2005, 08:17 PM
Cool issue, depsite the lack of action.

The Detective is trying to solve his JT mystery and goes to some interesting sources.

But, the hightlight to me is that the DCU is feeling very much like a shared universe. The fallout of Identity Crisis is being felt across the board.

I loved Ollie's belated and unheard apology.

The cliffhanger was pretty cool too.

-Don

Old School
April 27th, 2005, 08:18 PM
it was pretty cool seeing ollie and zatanna--i just thought we see bats visiting the grave like it shows on the cover and again finding it empty

jasonleo
April 27th, 2005, 08:23 PM
Liking the new Jason so much. I heard some people refering to him as the DC's new version of the Punisher.

ThaTruth
April 27th, 2005, 08:33 PM
I was going to call him the New Azrael without the crazy psycho programming!

Haven't bought Batman in a long time but with Infinite Crisis and Jason Todd's Return had to jump on board, at least for now.

daryldens
April 27th, 2005, 08:36 PM
I read Adv of Supes #639 by Judd and I was so dissapointed I didn't want to read this book next. Also, his work on Outsiders and Green Arrow has seemed padded out and unispiring, and although his Batman work has been solid, I think his issues need to be condensed for maximum impact - and to justify the cover price. But being the weak DC fan that I am I cracked it open anyway and begrudgingly read it.

It was a great issue. Great interaction by Bats with Zatanna and Green Arrow. The Identity Crisis story is really starting to pay off now as it just adds the spark that was needed for when the big 3 interact with the other heroes in the DC Universe, and Judd capitalized on this wonderfully.

I've been taking Judd to task in my various posts lately becuase of the quick reads his issues provide lately, but when the story/characterization is as strong as it was in this issue, I don't notice or care that it reads quick. A great issue that reminded of when Judd seemed to be firing on all cylinders - early GL & GA, early Outsiders and Blood & Water. A great read!

Mahnke's art has been strong throughout.

BrianT
April 27th, 2005, 08:37 PM
Winick f***in' owned this issue! This was just a great issue.

mike626
April 27th, 2005, 09:01 PM
Liking the new Jason so much. I heard some people refering to him as the DC's new version of the Punisher.More like the DCU's Vic Mackey since when wolud Frank Castle run the drug biz?

clarkent1982
April 27th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Winick f***in' owned this issue! This was just a great issue.

HELL, YEAH!!!

I hope that Judd will write Batman after issue #642.

specialty dish
April 27th, 2005, 09:56 PM
yeah I didn't even buy Adventures because of how crappy I thought Action was last month. But this was definite a kick ass comic book. I don't care too much for the Onyx character but it certainly didn't keep me from liking this book.

PMH
April 27th, 2005, 10:33 PM
sooooooooooooooooo good!!!

Best parts were with Green Arrow and Zatanna!

jasonleo
April 28th, 2005, 06:46 AM
More like the DCU's Vic Mackey since when wolud Frank Castle run the drug biz?


I think they meant that he would kill bad guys and not think twice about it. I do not read Punisher so I am just relaying what I have heard others saying.

bandit
April 28th, 2005, 07:22 AM
I'm a little confused about the timeframes in the book. Part 1 opened with Batman and Red Hood facing each other after being unmasked....it then goes to 5 weeks earlier.

Now, we're on a new storyline but that scene from Part 1 was never shown. Did I miss something? Are we to assume that Bats deduced it by watching Jason's moves?

red lantern
April 28th, 2005, 09:31 AM
After reading it, I think this is a milestone for winick. It's the first time he ever got a character's personality 100%.

The book was an awesome read this week. My only question is if the lazarus pit that ra's alluded to in the hush storyline, was the one that batman took zatanna.

Or is the possibility open that there are lazarus pits that batman doesn't know about?

kash
April 28th, 2005, 10:14 AM
I'm a little confused about the timeframes in the book. Part 1 opened with Batman and Red Hood facing each other after being unmasked....it then goes to 5 weeks earlier.

Now, we're on a new storyline but that scene from Part 1 was never shown. Did I miss something? Are we to assume that Bats deduced it by watching Jason's moves?


the end of the family reunion storylin leads us to the opening sequence in Under the Hood

Basically the family reuinion is of bruce and jason reunited(or facing off basically)

MatchesMalone
April 28th, 2005, 10:31 AM
The Identity Crisis as common ground for the DCU is working rather nice. I really wondered how something like that would be picked up by other writers, but so far (as far as Geoff and Judd are concerned) it only adds to stories...it isn't distracting.

Question: Why would Batman only let Onyx operate in Gotham. To me it really says "I don't care about you. The others are the closest people to me, so I have forced them to distance themselves from me. But you Onyx, please keep working in town." Not that Bats and she are that "close", but still...

jasonleo
April 28th, 2005, 10:47 AM
I wonder if it has something to do with Orpheus being killed.

John Hays
April 28th, 2005, 11:06 AM
the end of the family reunion storylin leads us to the opening sequence in Under the Hood

Basically the family reuinion is of bruce and jason reunited(or facing off basically)

Do you mean the end of the first issue of the family reunion storyline?

I'm not so sure about that. I think that we are to just assume that this latest issue follows the unmasking, which is why Batman is now looking for evidence of Jason's return.

thunderdude
April 28th, 2005, 03:17 PM
I loved the parts of this with Zatanna and GA. although the rest of it was rather slow. Jason Todd the new DC version of the Punisher? kind of cool. but I think Deathstroke more or less filled that role.

Rion1986
April 28th, 2005, 04:01 PM
I hope Judd brings on Catwoman soon and continues to develop the Bruce/Selina relationship. Batman is finally at HUSH-level quality again! :D

Frank the Tank
April 28th, 2005, 05:21 PM
Best Winick Batman yet. Between Identity Crisis, DC Countdown, Omac, Greg Rucka's Superman and Wonder Woman, Geoff's titles, (JSA being my fave), including the upcoming JLA throwdown, and the spreading "shared universe" concept, I can't say I remember the last time I've been more excited over DC Comics for, say, the last twenty years. Can't wait for Villains United, Green Lantern, the return of Donna Troy and of course, Infinite Crisis. Kudos to the creative minds behind it all.

Brendon Carlson
April 28th, 2005, 09:56 PM
I loved the Zee and Green Arrow parts. The Lazarus Pit was interesting since one was used in Gotham Knights 47-49 & in Death of the Maidens, but now out of the blue, they are "all" sealed up. The Green Arrow part was great especially the "I'm sorry" at the end by Ollie. Evidentally Bruce figured out Jason is Red Hood by his moves. I was a bit surprised it skipped so much from the end of 638 to a new scene on 639 beginning. Also, I wonder when the unmasking will happen as with the beginning of the last arc. The Onyx bit with Red Hood at the end and in the next issue should be very interesting.

catman69
April 29th, 2005, 01:09 PM
Bats is keeping it strictly business. He knows she's an accomplished fighter, but he has no vested interest in her well being. He's Batman, he knows what she can do.

srkf
April 29th, 2005, 06:44 PM
My understanding was that this issue is still a flashback issue leading up to the Red Hood unmasking himself in fron of Batman. There hasn't been a change in tone from the prior flashback scenes and wouls seem just plain old sloppy to jump back and forth without some indication that the time period had jumped backed to the present (i.e. the Hood's umasking.)

My guess is that what we are seeing is Batman working on a thoery that the Hood is someone who has come back from the dead based on the moves he has shown but not necessarily Jason.
I'm going to guess that he may actually think the Red Hood is Azrael who he believes to be dead.

Az was good enough to keep up / out run Batman. Hence, the shock in his face in the first issue (the only non-flashback issue from what I can tell) when he sees it's actually Jason.

Remember that he never mentioned in the most recent issue who he thought had come back to life. If he thought it was jason, then there would be no reason for him to be so surprised when Jason finally unmasked himself.
Azrael does have a history with Ra's, Talia and the Lazarus pits. Ra's challenged Az in Azrael issues #6-9 and in issue #30 offered Talia's hand in marriage to Az after deciding Batman would never marry her and that Az was a worthy successor. Ra's later learned that Az had animal dna. Ra's decided Az wasn't a fit successor and attempted to have him killed. Talia helped him escape. Thus his reason for checking the Lazarus pits as Az has a history with Talia and the pits.

Batman also knows that the Order of St. Dumas had been around for ages and likely dabbled in the occult and magic. Thus, his reasoning for checking in with Jason Blood.

I just think that Judd's still leading us to that moment in the first issue of the arc where Batman seemed genuinely shocked at the Hood's identity.

glcjr
April 29th, 2005, 09:30 PM
I loved Ollie's belated and unheard apology.

Anyone know what he was apologizing for?

Kris
April 30th, 2005, 03:31 AM
Anyone know what he was apologizing for?

He's apologizing for what he and the rest of the Power Pact of Identity Crisis did to Batman.

<Spoiler>









When he came upon them lobotomizing Dr Light, he attacked and they put him down and mindwiped him.</spoiler>

Seemed a bit hypocritical to me. Batman insults the very possibility that people might get angry at his jerkoff behavior by calling it shallow......

...Then claims he doesn't want to deal with OLLIE's jerkoff behavior... :wtf:

Oh yes. And Batman, of all people, suggests that it is bad to be dishonest and mean to your friends.

Really, Bats? Really? How did you learn that? In Fugitive? Tower of Babel? War Games? :o

Can1
April 30th, 2005, 01:38 PM
The Red Hood issue aside .. this was a very well written and well drawn comic story. The Hood thing is still very much the delicious mystery to me. Sometimes secrets revealed are not the truth .. and sometime they are .. either way if they get me to read on with interest .. the writer has done his job.

Great job Judd.

crawfordcrow
April 30th, 2005, 04:41 PM
Although it's completely out of my personal idiom, I had the mighty urge to shout "Ohhhh, snap!" at the remarks toward GA and Zee. Indeed, the Identity Crisis seeds are beginning to bloom and I'm loving every bit of it.

Dennman
May 1st, 2005, 04:09 PM
Who is this Onyx person? I have not been reading the Bat books recently. Only started picking it up with the return of Jason Todd. Can some one fill me in please.

Brendon Carlson
May 1st, 2005, 04:41 PM
Who is this Onyx person? I have not been reading the Bat books recently. Only started picking it up with the return of Jason Todd. Can some one fill me in please.

From DCUGuide.com:
"A female mercenary in service of the Ashram Monastery, an order to which Green Arrow once belonged. When Ashram's Exalted Master was killed by the renegade monk Lars, who intended to unravel the "Wisdom Key" that unlocked the powerful Book of Ages, Onyx sought Green Arrow's help to defeat the villain. In Ashram, Green Arrow and Onyx were defeated by the minions of Lars's, and the monk managed to take the Wisdom Key from Onyx. However, upon opening the Book of Ages, Lars was vaporized and left a skeleton. Later, Onyx appeared in Star City to battle a villain named Barricade. Barricade turned out to be Lars, who had been revived by his underlings. The spell which skeletized him was reversed only as long as he remained in contact with the Book of Ages, but with the Wisdom Key possessed by Onyx, he could make the reversal permanent. In a battle with Onyx, Green Arrow, and Black Canary, Barricade again met defeat and was reversed into a heap of bones.

Following this incident, Onyx was not to be seen for years. Recently, she briefly returned as part of Wonder Woman’s "task force" of super-heroines, battling the minions of Circe."

After that, she was the bodyguard for Orpheus in War Games until he was killed by Black Mask. Now she has been in the Red Hood storyline as well as Batgirl and Catwoman recently too.