Need Help With A Research Project

[Researcher]

Hello!

I'm a Teaching Assistant at a major college and I am doing some research for a book being written by the professor I work for with the working title Modern Morality Plays: The Religion of Comics.

Essentially, the book will discuss how comics have become the primary form or morality storytelling much in the way that Bible studies were in the past.

One of my students suggested I come here and ask a few questions, as this forum is reportedly quite active.

If you wish to participate, please provide the following:

Age
Gender
Religious Affiliation

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

I'll probably have more questions later, but this should get us started.

[Jeffrey Neary]

Jeffrey Neary
33
Male
Catholic

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

Yes, for the most part. Putting aside the acts that fall in the midst of a gray area good acts are deemed as such and evil acts are not cheered. There are those who are willing to put to do what needs to be done to protect and serve. With regard to the gray area, the notion that such acts force us to think about crime and punnishment or the motivation of said actions are in line with what I believe.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

Classic model of Good and Evil. Actions and consequences. Do the ends justify the means or are these creatures who take the law into their own hands serving the greater good.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

Absolutely. Isn't Superman a bit like Moses. (Esp the first movie). Cannot Spiderman appear as a bit of a Christ Symbol. Hawk and Dove...Cain and Abel.

[TJLamb0518]

Age: 40
Gender: Male
Religious Affiliation: Raised Roman Catholic; currently agnostic

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values? Not anymore they don't

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics? Ill-defined if they exist at all

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular? Yes.

[Steve Hollis]

Age--34
Gender--M
Religious Affiliation--Protestant (somewhere between a Baptist and a PCA Presbyterian)

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values? As a whole? It depends on the comic

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics? Again, this is a very vague question, and it seems to have changed a lot over the years.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular? I think that certain characters reflect religious philosophy, but I prefer the term worldview philosophy, that way you can lump post-modernism and atheism with religion, because they all have a worldview.


I know I was being vague, but I couldn't help it based on your questions. Let me try a different way to answer your question.

I believe that we have totally wrecked the meaning of the word "myth." Myth does not mean untrue, but rather something larger than life that reflects reality. To the 20th century Christian Humanists such as Tolkien, Lewis, Chesterton, Auden, etc. The Bible was *the* Myth that all other stories pointed to.

I think that comics take the place of myth in a part of our culture. They reflect values and ideals that a lot of us have in common. Comic characters are mythic in that they are larger than life and they represent a facet of reality.

This is actually one of the things I love about comics and it sounds like a very interesting project you're working on. I hope I didn't sound brusque in my answers, but when you ask if I think comics reflect my values, are you talking Spider-Man, Green Lanter, or Moon Knight and Punisher? The comic characters are a diverse group and represent a lot of different things.

Again, not trying to be difficult, but I am trying to be accurate.

[Highball]

Hello!

I'm a Teaching Assistant at a major college and I am doing some research for a book being written by the professor I work for with the working title Modern Morality Plays: The Religion of Comics.

Essentially, the book will discuss how comics have become the primary form or morality storytelling much in the way that Bible studies were in the past.

One of my students suggested I come here and ask a few questions, as this forum is reportedly quite active.

If you wish to participate, please provide the following:

Age
Gender
Religious Affiliation

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

I'll probably have more questions later, but this should get us started.

28
Male
Egyptian Orthodox(Christian)

1. I think so. I'd say overall I'm a good person. Even with the gray areas that have surfaced lately in DC heroes(mind-wipes, snapping murderers' necks,etc) that gray area still erred to the side of good(well except for the League mind-wiping Batman, that's the only thing I had completely disagreed with about Identity Crisis).

2. Helping people, using your gifts for the good of humanity. Being honest(requirement for being a GL).

3. Yes. With the presence of the Spectre and Zuariel it reflects the Christian, Jewish, or Muslim beliefs of heaven, hell, angels, demons, etc (though I can't recall if those related characters ever actually state specifically Christianity). Plus we've seen characters go to church(the one that currently springs to mind is Mr Terrific and Doc Midnight at the end of the Hal/Spectre story in JSA).

Then there's the defunct ancient beliefs like Greek gods in Wonder Woman, ancient Egyptian reincarnation in Hawkman, Norse gods from Thor, and then made for comics gods like The New Gods.

[Infernorhythm]

Nicholas
15
Male
Catholic/Jewish/Islamic

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

Yes. Take for example Batman. He was wronged, and sorly traumatized for all of his life. Yet, he never resorted to killing (with the exception of the awful Dark Knight Returns stories, thankfully they're out of continuity). He was going to get revenge, but not stoop to their levels. People like that are a great reflection of my views. Kate Spencer on the other hand, not so much.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

Dealing with life in general. Look at every comic out there. Batman has to deal with the all too human tragedies he's experienced, Spiderman has to try to deal with life and school, and Superman has to deal with wooing the love of his life. Comics, for all their whacky stuff, are human at heart, and therefore quite wonderful.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

I believe that comics reflect all religions. DC has an obvious Christian-Jewish-Islamic God, yet has managed to incorporate gods. There's no bashing of any religious, merely an acceptance of all spirituallities (which is taken from Hinduism; everyone else is conceited in their views). That's part of why I love comics, they are open to all religions.

Of course, my views on religion come mostly from Kevin Smith's epic movie Dogma, but you've got to admit the views presented were quite wonderful.

[Researcher]

Thanks for the responses. I sure could use some more, though.

Also, I'd like to add a couple more questions to the discussion.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

(I know, a bit sensitive, but your answers would be helpful for our study)

Thanks again.

[Jeffrey Neary]

Thanks for the responses. I sure could use some more, though.

Also, I'd like to add a couple more questions to the discussion.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

(I know, a bit sensitive, but your answers would be helpful for our study)

Thanks again.

4) Depends on the story. Just like in the bookshelves..there is diversity. However, if someone is reading a story with a specific agenda in mind..they will see it where it might not exist. Some saw misogynism in Identity Crisis..others bring it up with regard to the original WW tales...(Is it there..well I say no and yes respectively)..but its up to the reader and what they bring to the table. Some might see the Batman and Robin relationship as having latent homosexuality...I don't see it. Lust and sexual fustration..again..I think of the Bat. But again..that would depend on the individual and what they infer based on whats written and what hits them.

[John Hays]

If I don't reply to this tonight (I'm about to head home), somebody please remind me! I definitely have some opinions on this! Thanks!

[Infernorhythm]

Thanks for the responses. I sure could use some more, though.

Also, I'd like to add a couple more questions to the discussion.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

(I know, a bit sensitive, but your answers would be helpful for our study)

Thanks again.

4. No. Okay, there's the Image trend of skimpy outfitted babes, but comics are very female friendly most of the time. As for homosexuality, unless there's characters that are gay like in Young Avengers, I see no homosexuality. The Batman stuff is just overhyped. As for sexual frustration, comics do a good job of being realistic, so yeah, there's that. People are people, and, well like sex. It's usually handled quit finely and not cheesy (with the exception of the Grell/Winick obsession of an unfaithful Ollie and Devin Grayson's odd concept of having all females fall for Nightwing).

[Lundonj]

Age: 40
Gender: Male
Religious Affiliation: Roman Catholic


1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

It completely depends on the genre and the individual story. "Comics" aren't Universal in theme, despite the superhero genre dominating the headlines. That said, award winning graphic novels like Maus and The Road to Perdition hold up well in reflecting or at least providing an intellectual vantage point for "moral" values. My personal values have a wide open range as well, so sure, most comics reflect something of those values.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

Again, it depends on genre. These questions are largely subjective for a study that should presume objectivity. A western, romance, horror or superhero vibe varies quite a bit, like all fiction. Generally, in most Western Civ fiction, we get a moral tale good versus evil, tough choices to solve problems and some shades of gray to sort through. Specific to the superhero genre, if that is the type of "comics" in the study, mostly have good characters trying to help others, making mistakes along the way, but helpful heroic types in most cases.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

Judean-Christian values seem to dominate most Western Civ literature, and most comics in English tend to reflect that. More Christmas trees in the "holiday" specials than other specific representations -- speaking again to the superhero genre.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

I wish the study was a little more specific to genre. Again, I'm guessing the superhero genre, as the questions seem to fishing along the lines of the late Dr. Wertham. If that is the case, I would have to say most hero books lean a lot on physical appearances, which could lend itself to people to have misogynistic take on fictional female characters. Latent homosexuality, that really sounds like Wertham now. Certainly sounds like a nice way to ask if comics influence sexual preference, which would be silly. Sexual frustration within the context of story, I doubt it, unless some people haven't been able to get a date with two-dimensional, four-color babes lately (i.e., they really are imaginary characters here).


-Don

[married guy]

Age 32
Gender Male last time I checked!
Religious Affiliation None

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values? Yes

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics? Clearly defined good versus evil. Evil never prevails

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular? I believe American comics are the equivelant to the old Greek tales, ie: Jason & The Argonauts, Medusa, Hermes etc. Classical tales that are timeless and fire the imagination.

Thanks for playing

[married guy]

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

I wish the study was a little more specific to genre. Again, I'm guessing the superhero genre, as the questions seem to fishing along the lines of the late Dr. Wertham. If that is the case, I would have to say most hero books lean a lot on physical appearances, which could lend itself to people to have misogynistic take on fictional female characters. Latent homosexuality, that really sounds like Wertham now. Certainly sounds like a nice way to ask if comics influence sexual preference, which would be silly. Sexual frustration within the context of story, I doubt it, unless some people haven't been able to get a date with two-dimensional, four-color babes lately (i.e., they really are imaginary characters here).

That's the perfect answer for me as well. Thanks Don for being far more literate than myself!

[Murci]

33
Male
Catholic

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?
Not all them, but yeah, they reflect some of my moral values. And not all the comics that I buy reflect them, but I would say the majority, yes.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?
Truth, friendship, love, justice, responsibility, help the needed.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?
No, I don't think so. But if you look at every religious philosophy in the world they concur in some points, like love, helping other people without expecting something in return. And is the same in comics, they reflect some of these points, but I think not related to any particular religion.

[Murci]

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

It depends a lot of the writter and the point of view of the reader, unless it is very explicit, some times these undertones, as you say, are implicit or just left there for the reader to choice if they exist or not.

Obviouslly, there are some readers that see things where they aren't, but this always happens.

[Lundonj]

That's the perfect answer for me as well. Thanks Don for being far more literate than myself!

Hey, I don't know about being more literate, but I am sober at the moment, and that always helps!

Anyway, I'm all for comics of all themes and genres garnering some attention from the academic community. I think the art form is worthy of study, but I am wary of political footballs disguised as serious objective research as well. The superhero market tends to have a large target on its proverbial chest.

Interesting that a "Religion in Comics" study makes a mad dash at sex.

The answer to sex, in comics, television, movies, novels and the Bible is: yes. Yes, we're sexual beings, and we think about it, write about it and read about it in every facet of society.

If and when the "study" is published, I'd like to see it and discover whether or not the study reflects my moral values.

-Don

[alucardbarnivous]

Sure.

Age: 23
Gender: M
Religious Affiliation: Episcopalian

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

Not really. Although there are aspects of my moral values in several comics, I don't feel any one title or any set of titles or any publisher properly represents all of my moral values.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

Do good regardless of the sacrifice and to be a hero you must suffer the most tragedy. And when you deal with life, you meet grey areas of many different shades, and one must trust their instincts to sort through the right and the wrong.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

Not particularly. There are those that have made the connection to comics being the modern day's mythology, while I see it just as a illustrated medium for entertainment that reflects the time period it is published in while instilling a sense that we must do what is right regardless of what misteps we make and hardships we must endure. In comics, we see both faiths of Monotheistic and Polytheistic divinities with out becoming preachy as to what religion or mythology is "right" or "better". That said, I do believe that Islam and Judaism faiths should be just as present as Christianity, but at my core would prefer if the heroes and villains leave their faith ambigious (it's like what Stan Lee said about Spider-Man... his costume completely covers his body, which means anyone of any color can imagine being Spider-Man; Any person should be able to believe that their hero is a member of their faith, or practices no religion at all for those that are atheist).

[alucardbarnivous]

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

Just as much as any medium in the US. Sex sells and most people don't want to see "less then perfect physiqued" heroes doing their thing. So you have unrealisitc men and women performing unrealistic feats (this is an instance where I can associate comics with Mythology, the bodies of heroes are like that of the gods of history performing deeds humans can not hope to accomplish in our time). I don't see heroes really getting married often, and when they do it rarely lasts. This is due to the idea of escapism as people leave their everyday life to battle mad titans and traverse the stars in fiction. If you are a man or woman fantasizing about sex, you tend to think of the physically beautiful. As comic books are one of the more popular literatures of fantasy, it would make sense that they are fit in this way as well. To follow the fantasy thought, men are not known to fantasize about being married or going into a long term relationship, which the comic medium reflects as most heroes are like James Bond in spandex (just look at Green Arrow Olivier Queen, whom seems to sleep with anything that's female and alive). Oddly enough, I've heard of quite a few people that were motivated to get into weight-lifting based on comics, but I see that as more of a latent function of comics. Lastly, in regards to latent homosexuality, I don't really see it, but then again if one looks for it, they could probably find examples. Open homosexuality is still a relatively new and still not widely accepted practice, however it has begun to creep into comics, but at a pace to try and not raise many older, close minded fans (or fans' parents) to raise arms (Judd Winick is one of the few creators to throw caution to the wind in this area). This reminds me of a recent issue of Outsiders where characters are openly having sex on panel, however the only aspect that really started a fire was a minute head shot of two men kissing. You can see a parallel to Grand Theft Auto where you hear little about killing (including police officiers) while all the controversy lies in sex. Quite amusing since I don't think sex is something to be absolutely ashamed of, but find promoting murder to be an accepted means of entertainment today to be more detrimental. Not to say I feel there's anything wrong with games for everyone out there, just that you can complain about sex while not raise an eyebrow to gratuitous killing.

[Researcher]

Thanks, these are great answers. There are some great quotes here that we might use. If we do, I will ask you to e-mail some information (name, age, location, etc.) so we can reference you in the book.

Please continue answering the original questions.

Additionally, we could also use some opinions on what characters/storylines best illustrate the following moral concepts:

A. Redemption
B. Faith
C. Humility
D. Hospitality
E. Mercy

Thanks a lot!

[Researcher]

My prof just e-mailed me with another question. I guess we can call this #6.

6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?

[Steve Hollis]

Additionally, we could also use some opinions on what characters/storylines best illustrate the following moral concepts:

A. Redemption--Green Lantern: Rebirth, characters--Spectre, Batman, Spider-Man
B. Faith--Icons: Nightcrawler, character--Nightcrawler
C. Humility--Green Lantern: The Road Back (even though it's not a favorite story), character--Kyle Rayner, Tim Drake
D. Hospitality--the Excalibur Storyline where Kurt mentored the crazy gang (I can' pull my old issues if needed); character--Aunt May
E. Mercy--characters--Dove

Thanks a lot!

I might edit later if I think of more.

[Steve Hollis]

My prof just e-mailed me with another question. I guess we can call this #6.

6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?

I think there's influence. Kal-El means something to the effect of "all that God is" in Hebrew, for example. I think the Judeo-Christian ethic permeates our culture and our history, so it's not surprising that it also permeates our modern mythology.

[Jeffrey Neary]

My prof just e-mailed me with another question. I guess we can call this #6.

6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?


I have to think a bit on question 5 as the individual elements have found place in most stories...but I figure I'll jump into 6.

Comics do have a Judeo-Christian aspect as indicated before. Superman..the Moses of the DCU given powers to free his adopted people from tyranny. One who is seen as an equal in his day to day guise yet is truly the savior of his people.

Spiderman burdened with the responsibility set forth by the words of his father figure. 'Great power/Great responsibility". A tale of sacrifice and burden filled with miracles.

Batman..a character given rise from the death of others who sees value in all life. The only hope for a crime filled city. He honers his parents. He shall not kill. He keeps holy the sabbath (day of his parents passing) etc.

One could argue that all modern fiction has ties to the bible in some sense. Older tales being retold in a modern setting...but then in lieu of being overt..the creators might have been influenced on a unconscious level.

[Jeffrey Neary]

Thanks, these are great answers. There are some great quotes here that we might use. If we do, I will ask you to e-mail some information (name, age, location, etc.) so we can reference you in the book.

Please continue answering the original questions.

Additionally, we could also use some opinions on what characters/storylines best illustrate the following moral concepts:

A. Redemption
B. Faith
C. Humility
D. Hospitality
E. Mercy

Thanks a lot!


A. Redemption - GL Hal Jordan. Before Rebirth he merged with the cast off Wrath of God (Spectre) to become the new Spectre. The entire series was too metaphysical for the genre but it did manage to tell a tale of Hal attempted to redeem himself for the crimes he committed and lives he took as Parallax. Rebirth..his return from the grave to that of a Green Lantern doesn't totally take the burden of the crimes from his brow (as it turns out that "The devil influenced him to do it") but it shows how Hal has sought to make up for his actions.

B. Faith - For Tomorrow..a Superman story..is deeply rooted in the notion in Faith and the loss of Faith. In fact..most Superman stories depict Faith as a core element. The belief that there is a better way. His hope for our future. But an interesting example would be Preacher. Not so much to show Faith..but to show what happens when Faith is lost. Genesis..the child of an angel and a demon escapes from Heaven and merges with a down on his luck preacher imbuing him with "The Word" (The ability to make others do what he says) God..fearing Genesis' leaves Heaven. Jessie (The preacher) goes looking for him to force him to explain himself.


C. Humility - If Spiderman isn't the poster child for humility..i don't know who is. Its difficult to point out a specific story because the classic model is that for ever step forward he makes...life forces him to take 12 back. Be it his Aunt being sick and him needing money to buy medicine..to the Cops believing he is criminal despite his numerous efforts to save the city/planet..etc etc. But..the old Barry Allen Flash stories depicted a police scientist that also shared this trait. One would claim that the final pages of Identity Crisis where Ralph is speaking to his dead wife as a means of therapy is humility in action as well.


D. Hospitality - Hate to use Superman again..but if The origin of the man of Steel...an alien child adopted by two strangers and raised as their own doesn't bleed hospitality..I don't know what does. But...one would argue that the Martian Manhunter also shows these aspects.


E. Mercy - Others might disagree..but I say Batman. Hush is just one storyline where the Bat had a gun to the head of the Joker...a villain who killed his ward, Gordon's wife, paralyzed Batgirl, as well as numerous people across the globe..and even though every bone in his body wanted to pull the trigger..Gordon's words..and his own sense of right and wrong kept him from taking this villain's life. Perhaps some might say its dumb..but its the epitome of Mercy. Most characters have been in a position to take out their arch enemy for good and held back... but this to me was the most perfect depiction of Mercy.

[Atom-Smasher]

Age: 19
Gender: Male
Religon: Reform/Conservative Jewish (somewhere in between the two)

1. Comics at the moment do reflect my values. It's a matter of the heroes living up to those values that is changing.

2. To me, the primary values reflected in comics are bravery, sacrifice, and the ability to overcome dark times.

3. I don't see too much of any religious philosophy in current comics, aside from some resurrection myth stuff when it comes to Superman.

I'll skip #4...

5a. Atom Smasher represents redemption. He made a mistake and sacrificed his life to correct it, and then was brought back from the brink of death and is now serving his punishment.

5b. Superman represents faith. To have strong enough faith in humanity to go out every day and help everyone unconditionally requires faith in the world far beyond what I have.

5c. Jay Garrick represents humility. He tips his hat to every person he saves--he just does it too fast for anyone to see. He's one of the kindest heroes in the business.

5d. Dr. Mid-Nite represents hospitality. As the DCU's medical professional, he treats superheroes and their spouses, as well as those who are too poor to afford their own medical care. He's the most hospitable people ever.

5e. Raven represents mercy. Her ability to drain emotions allows her to heal others and give them confidence.

[Jeffrey Neary]

Ooooh..another story of redemption...or perhaps Forced attrition would be Suicide Squad. Former Villains doing deeds for the government in order to reduce their sentences. Some are forced..others like Col. Flagg and the Bronze Tiger doing so for past mistakes. Villains United touched upon this theme.


one of the Characters..Deadshot...had aa recent series where he attempted to clean up the town in which his child was living. he wasn't aware he had one..but once he learned..he made sure she was raised in a safe environment.

[Atom-Smasher]

In relation to question 6: as a Jewish comic book reader, I look around a great deal for any sign of Jewish stuff in comics. It's a habit. Things like the upcoming Sgt. Rock mini about rescuing the rabbi in Eastern Europe are few and far between. Interestingly, the three highest profile Jewish characters at Marvel--Kitty Pryde, the Thing and Moon Knight--have a mini-series, an ongoing and an upcoming ongoing, respectively. On the DC side, Ragman is in the Shadowpact ongoing, but otherwise, Atom Smasher is in jail and... that's it. No one's heard from Seraph and Hayoth for years, and I think I'm the only person that considers Black Canary to actually be Jewish (I have my reasons). Atom Smasher could become a player in OYL considering his current imprisoned status and his apparent recruitment by Amanda Waller.

As for Jewish themes in writing, the legend of the Golem has influenced a number of characters, most notably Marvel's thing.

[Brian LaBelle]

Age: 27
Gender: Male
Religious Affiliation: None. I consider myself a spiritual person though.

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?I do. I am a child and youth care worker and help others as a profession because I have been given the tools to do so. I DO have a super-power and that's being able to form positive, therapeutic relationships with young people and inspiring them to achieve more. I recently had to write a paper stating one of my personal life positions. My position was I help my community because I can. As part of the paper I had to trace all of the potential influences that could have led me to that position and with all my heart I believe it's because I grew up reading Superman comics and Superman taught me that you should do whatever you can to help your fellow man. Not because you should or because it's right but because you can.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?The Golden Rule of life would seem to be the golden rule of comics as well. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?As a primarily North American art form I would think that Judaism and Catholocism and offshoots would have more of an influence than other religions? My philosophy professor used to tell us that 90% of everything we read was stolen from the Bible and I believe there are more than enough stories if not names that could be cited by others more religious than I.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

(A) The majority of comics were fairly misogynistic but I believe they were taking their cues from other successful media of the time. Baywatch and WWF wrestling were the 2 most popular programs on television at the time.

(B) I'm sure even if it wasn't there people could find and cite examples based on their beliefs. I personally don't see a lot of it in the mainstream comics but a title like "Girls" by Image is capable of milking it for all it's worth.

(C) Early Gen13 issues would provide a good example with Burnout "hot" for the unavailable lesbien, Rainmaker. A Native-American lesbien with the power to get everyone else wet. Think of that what you will. :D

5. what characters/storylines best illustrate the following moral concepts:
A. RedemptionGreen Lantern: Rebirth. Hal was given the opportunity to serve as God's wrath and as he did, he slowly became his own person again. I don't know if many people would stand up to "the presence" given the opportunity and through the Spectre, Hal became his own person again.

B. Faith - I will hold off on this one and recommend Infinite Crisis. It's been said the heroes will only get through the Crisis by having faith in the future, will they be able to?

C. Humility - Superman: For Tomorrow would be another recommendation I second. I know a lot of people hated it and it fits for the Faith aspect but I was personally really blown away by Azzarello's ability to make Superman seem so powerless and small when he was speaking with the Priest. Despite all his power, he was humbled by the presence of God and I found it very interesting.

D. Hospitality - I used to think Batman taking in Dick Grayson was a good example but lately it's been portrayed more as a planned recruitment. The Kents adopting baby Clark after he falls from the sky is another great example.

E. Mercy - I re-read my old Titans issues and terra was NEVER really on that team. Despite being a total psycho who tried to kill them, the Titans still saw Tera Markov as a person with a problem and not a problem-person. They could have teamed-up on her and kicked her butt but right up until her death they attempted to support their teammate rather than turn their collective backs on her.

6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?I quite honestly never considered it until presented with the question.

[Captain Comet]

Hello!

I'm a Teaching Assistant at a major college and I am doing some research for a book being written by the professor I work for with the working title Modern Morality Plays: The Religion of Comics.

Essentially, the book will discuss how comics have become the primary form or morality storytelling much in the way that Bible studies were in the past.

One of my students suggested I come here and ask a few questions, as this forum is reportedly quite active.

If you wish to participate, please provide the following:

Age
Gender
Religious Affiliation

And answer the following questions:

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

I'll probably have more questions later, but this should get us started.

35
Male
Free Will Baptist

1. To a point maybe (depending on who the character is) but I set a very high standard to live by so while some may be close, its not entirely acurate.

2. Generally, its good vs. evil but sometimes (and in a politically correct world) there are those storylines that do come up on pushing someones own personal view on you that you don't agree with.

3. Yes or at least they try to incorporate a generalization of what religion is. The most noteable of religion that's in comics I would say would be Catholics (I guess priests stand out better). Can't say I've seen a character make an appearance that believes in the FWB doctrine though.

[Captain Comet]

Thanks for the responses. I sure could use some more, though.

Also, I'd like to add a couple more questions to the discussion.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples): (a) misogynism, (b) latent homosexuality, (c) lust, sexual frustration.

(I know, a bit sensitive, but your answers would be helpful for our study)

Thanks again.

4. YES!!!
You need look no further than the early 90's during the so-called "Bad Girls" for lust and sexual frustrations. Large breasts and thongs were the choice of the day for our ladies in tights...er, strings.

As for homosexuality, you need look no further than over the last few years. Although, there may have been an occasional character years ago (like Northstar), its to the point that any book you pick may have a gay character in it.

Hatred, abuse, drunks, sex, nudity, etc., make for very gritty storytelling.

In the "Mature Reader" comic books you're likely to see all of this and more.

[Ragnell]

(Sorry to come late to the discussion, but I've had a busy week)

Age 23
Gender Female
Religious Affiliation Wicca

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

Depends on the comic book. Classic silver-age style superhero stories tend to reflect nicely. The 90s anti-hero phase didn't, too many bad guys masquerading as good guys. Right now showcases a nice moral trend, complex decisions that lead to complex consequences, but the proper choice of action is often clear to the outsider (And by that I mean, Wonder Woman was in the Right, Punisher is in the Wrong)

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

Loyalty, Selflessness, Justice, Reasonable Tolerance (Alien does not equal evil, Different Religion/Culture/Political mindset does not equal evil, Blaming others for your station in life and taking vengeance equals evil) Personal Accountability for Actions, Personal Empowerment (rising above your station, rising above your personal tragedy)

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

Most major religions seem to have same basic morals (Basically, Don't do anything to another person that you wouldn't wnat done to you) when it comes down to it. So, most comic books do reflect human morality. If you get into the specifics of religion -- the nature of the divine, the afterlife, nature of the human spirit...etc.. Comic books reflect all of those too. You find the same basic stories repeating themselves in nearly all religions, with the trappings changed. A superhero universe like Marvel or DC tells the same basic tales again, using all of the trappings from all of the religions (Reincarnation, Hell, the Chakras, Enlightenment leading to great mental power, Angels, Ghosts, God, Goddess, Gods and Goddesses) as they fit each hero. All religious philosophies coexist.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples):
(a) misogynism Not in particular.
(b) latent homosexuality Not that I've noticed, though I've had it pointed out to me. I think that's more of the uptight restrictions on male-male relationships. Men walking down the street can't bump into each other in some company without getting teased about it. So whenever comic books show a healthy friendship between two males or two females, everyone jumps the gun.
Not to say that it doesn't exist at all just because I don't notice it. I will admit that the Green Lantern Secret Files 2005 story is pretty suggestive on the second reading once someone's made the suggestion. And Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy have obviously experimented once in a while, but on the whole I'm not seeing a Wertham conspiracy.
(c) lust, sexual frustration All over the place. And it's not just females getting tied up and getting their clothing torn. Kyle Rayner, Jack Knight, Dick Grayson and Tim Drake have all gotten out of some fairly titillating positions without as much clothing as they had when they got into them. But notice, you never see bruising on the face.


6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?

None that I've noticed, actually. It's possibly contributed to the neutrality of religion in most characters, though.

[gothamite]

Yeah, I'm coming late to this party as well.

Like others before me, I'm limiting my responses to mainstream super-hero comics. The medium is just too big to discuss, and it seems like this is really a genre study anyway.


Age 33
Gender Male
Religious Affiliation Atheist

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?

I don't know. I certainly wouldn't want people in our world to behave the way that super-heroes behave. I'm opposed to vigilante justice, yet I love Batman. Is that a disconnect? I don't know. There's an escapist element that comes into play.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?

The primary moral values are a sort of generic Protestant middle-class ethic.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?

As I mentioned above, generic Protestant. There are other gods (basically, in the DCU all faiths are "right" to one degree or another), but the Christian God is supreme above them all.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples):
(a) misogynism

Absolutely. It is a medium created almost entirely by men for an almost exclusively male audience. And let's face it, when most writers start to build a character they use themselves as the foundation. I don't think it's necessarily conscious, but it's definitely there.

"Misogyny" is a popular word, diminshed by overuse. But with very few exceptions, super-heroines are defined by their bodies. And since female body caricatures involve sexual characteristics in a way that male body exaggerations do not, the female characters tend to become defined by their secondary sexual characteristics.

As supporting characters, females usually fit the "girlfriend" role to a hero, and have an alarming tendency to be dispatched when the writer wants to create emotional distress for the hero. I can't remember if anyone's already used the phrase "Women in Refrigerators" on this thread, but you might want to look into it.

(b) latent homosexuality

This one I don't think so. There might be some of it, but most of the "classic" examples are more about people wanting to read something into the characters. I don't think, for example, that Bob Kane or Bill Finger had any intention, conscious or unconscious, of creating a homosexual relationship between Batman and Robin.

William Moulton Marston, on the other hand, definitely knew what he was doing when he gave Wonder Woman the lesbian undertones.

(c) lust, sexual frustration

Yes and no. I think the treatment of sex in mainstream comics is extremely juvenile - it's rather like a junior high school student's idea of sex. This is also prevalent in the depiction of adult human relationships of all kinds -most comic writers aren't interested/able to write an authentic relationship. I believe this is why characters don't get married, and when they do they rarely stay married. There are a couple of high-profile exceptions (such as Clark and Lois, obviously), but those are rare.

Writing realistic human relationships is hard. They're complicated. Much easier to kill off the girlfriend, break up the marriage, make the wife an insane super-villain. :o

6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?

I think the predominantly Jewish background of the original creations has a lot to do with the religious undertones, but not in the way you might mean. Remember that back then, most of the creators were hiding their "Jewishness." Assimilation was the name of the game, right down to the names that they changed.

[Researcher]

Thank you all very much for the answers thus far. It is clear that many of you have put some time, serious thought, and effort into your responses.

As I said previously, I would be happy to give cites to many of your quotes for posterity.

Now, just a few more questions to put the source your input into context for the book:

7. How has the message board phenomenon impacted comics overall, in your opinion?

8. Does the existence of an online community of this type serve as a means of reinforcing your moral views?

9. How has this growing cyber community been impacted by the greatest of all internet trolls, Lanternology?

[Jeffrey Neary]

Ahhh...****...You got me.

Literally Laughing out loud.

[Jeffrey Neary]

Though..to be honest..I did think that it was weird that you posted this ONLY in the GL forum...but I discounted that as the researcher being unaware.

Brilliant job man.

[Researcher]

Thanks.

This one took a bit of effort, so its nice that at least one person appreciates it!

The ironic side effect of this gag, I must say, is that it actually produced some pretty astute, insightful, and intelligent comments.

Still, as I read them, I chuckled my butt off!

[Jeffrey Neary]

You know what is going to happen....a real researcher is going to come here and we will think they are you again and we will chase them off.

[Researcher]

I guess that would make me "The Boy Who Cried Lanternology"!

[Jeffrey Neary]

We should go back and edit our posts..keep it alive.

[Researcher]

LOL. Oh, I doubt it could get much better than this!

[Jeffrey Neary]

No...it will be better if despite our posts..and your reveal..if people continue to answer the questions.

[John Hays]

Well, first off, I'm sure glad I waited until now to post! ;)

However, I'll go ahead and answer the questions, just to be a good sport!

Age - 28
Gender - Male
Religious Affiliation - Presbyterian

1. Do you feel that comics reflect your moral values?
Not all comics, obviously. I think that most of the comics that I choose to collect more closely reflect my moral values than the ones that I leave on the stands.

2. What are the primary moral values reflected in comics?
Again, it varies drastically. It even varies on the same title when a guest writer comes in, or a different permanent writer.

3. Do you feel that comics reflect any religious philosophy in particular?
As I've mentioned, I think it varies depending on what title with what writer you are talking about.

4. Do you feel that comics have a any of the following undertones (and, if so, why; cite examples):
(a) misogynism
-- While some might, I think this is played up by reviewers much more than it really exists in the comics
(b) latent homosexuality
-- No, I don't see that in the titles I collect. If there is homosexuality, it's dealt with directly.
(c) lust, sexual frustration
-- Sure! Green Arrow is ripe with it no matter what title he appears in

5. what characters/storylines best illustrate the following moral concepts:
A. Redemption - The Hal Jordan Spectre title was all about this, but it's debatable how succesfully it was done

B. Faith - Wonder Woman. It's all about her faith in her gods.

C. Humility - Wonder Woman again, as well as Superman. I think that, with those types of heroes at least, the more powerful they are, the more humble they tend to try to be.

D. Hospitality - JLI. They let anyone join the team! ;)

E. Mercy - Wonder Woman and Superman. Again, it's a matter of restraining great power.

6. To what extent, if any, do you believe the Jewish background of the majority of the creators of classic comic characters (i.e. Siegel & Shuster; Bob Kane; Stan Lee) impacts the moral content and religious undertones in today's comics?
I could be drastically wrong, but I don't think it's really a factor now. I think it depends more on who is writing a given title at the time.

7. How has the message board phenomenon impacted comics overall, in your opinion?
Well, for one thing it's eliminated the letter column, and that's unfortunate because the creators don't always read everything on a message board. However, I also think it's allowed fans to gather together in a much greater fellowship than ever before.

8. Does the existence of an online community of this type serve as a means of reinforcing your moral views?
Definitely. I see how those with different moral values act, and it just serves to make me more grateful that I was raised the way that I was.

9. How has this growing cyber community been impacted by the greatest of all internet trolls, Lanternology?
Again, I'm so glad I didn't post until now! ;)

[SaneHal]

ahahahaha

[alucardbarnivous]

In relation to question 6: as a Jewish comic book reader, I look around a great deal for any sign of Jewish stuff in comics. It's a habit. Things like the upcoming Sgt. Rock mini about rescuing the rabbi in Eastern Europe are few and far between. Interestingly, the three highest profile Jewish characters at Marvel--Kitty Pryde, the Thing and Moon Knight--have a mini-series, an ongoing and an upcoming ongoing, respectively. On the DC side, Ragman is in the Shadowpact ongoing, but otherwise, Atom Smasher is in jail and... that's it. No one's heard from Seraph and Hayoth for years, and I think I'm the only person that considers Black Canary to actually be Jewish (I have my reasons). Atom Smasher could become a player in OYL considering his current imprisoned status and his apparent recruitment by Amanda Waller.

As for Jewish themes in writing, the legend of the Golem has influenced a number of characters, most notably Marvel's thing.

There was also the Monolith series by DC that lasted 12 issues IIRC. They also had a Golem born of the Ragman origin that appeared in his title and in the Primal Force series.

[Brian LaBelle]

7. How has the message board phenomenon impacted comics overall, in your opinion?
It brings fans together and gives many who are interested in the hobby an opportunity to discuss many issues with each other that they wouldn't normally have the opportunity to. On the downside, it gives people without information a place to congregate and complain about a lack of information. It doesn't really matter if the story is only one part in to a multi-part story, the nervous-nellies always try and set the bandwagon on fire when they don't know what's going on.

8. Does the existence of an online community of this type serve as a means of reinforcing your moral views?
Not really, maybe expressing them?

9. How has this growing cyber community been impacted by the greatest of all internet trolls, Lanternology?
Who?

[Lundonj]

9. How has this growing cyber community been impacted by the greatest of all internet trolls, Lanternology?


Dude, if you spent half as much time and energy into...I dunno, say drinking or writing, or drinking and writing, as you do on this kind of stuff, you could have saved the world by now!

I do miss some of those mock interviews though. Parallax interview if I recall, was one of the best.

You got me good, but at least I was a cynical bastige in my responses. :p

-Don

[Ragnell]

I gotta admit, this one was pretty cool.

[gothamite]

LOL!

I admit it, you got me. :o